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Topic Title: Vehicle Charging power log
Topic Summary: Tell me what you need to know
Created On: 06 January 2018 10:20 PM
Status: Read Only
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 06 January 2018 10:20 PM
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Zs

Posts: 3842
Joined: 20 July 2006

hello,

I know that quite a few of you have your fingers in the vehicle charging pie. I don't but I have a power logging exercise on one brewing. The client owns a brand new VW Golf GTE. He has noticed that the back of the plug for the charger is showing signs of melting so I'm going to log it for a few days for him.

Normally I'd not look further than the type of cable/plug/distribution for a warm circuit but this might be quite useful for some of you so rather than just do it as a standard power logging exercise, if there are things you need to know about the car,the tech spec of the charging, the cables etc. let me know and I'll find out for you while I am there setting it up. Then I'll be able to share the findings with you and it might feather your nests for setting up charging points.

Zs
 06 January 2018 11:11 PM
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Fm

Posts: 1780
Joined: 24 August 2011

What type of charger is being used
A 7kW or 22 kW (Ish)
Personally I would just take it back to the dealer than pay a third party to tell me it's faulty, so I can tell the dealer it's faulty?
 07 January 2018 12:09 AM
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broadgage

Posts: 2486
Joined: 07 August 2007

I suspect a 13 amp plug, as these have a track record of overheating if subject to long term full load.

My personal view is that a 13 amp plug should not be subjected to more than about 10 amps long term. Fast boiling kettles and heavy duty power tools are fine because the load is short term.
In years gone by, genuine 3KW electric heaters used to be available, but these days most are limited to about 2.2 or 2.4KW if supplied for domestic use and fitted with a 13 amp plug. presumably to avoid warranty claims for melted plugs.

I have never heard of a 32 amp ceeform plug melting on a 7KW charger, unless badly installed.
 07 January 2018 11:01 AM
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John Peckham

Posts: 8809
Joined: 23 April 2005

I know that a more robust 13A socket is available specifically for vehicle charging but I don't thing it has a BS yet and I have not seen one.

That just leaves the 13A plug needing upgrading for a continuous 13A load current!


What sort of socket is it Zs?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 07 January 2018 11:37 AM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 16202
Joined: 13 August 2003

but these days most are limited to about 2.2 or 2.4KW if supplied for domestic use and fitted with a 13 amp plug. presumably to avoid warranty claims for melted plugs.

Or for Euro-wide compatibility, considering that 10A sockets were the norm in some areas?

I know that a more robust 13A socket is available specifically for vehicle charging but I don't thing it has a BS yet and I have not seen one.

Wouldn't BS 1363 still be appropriate? - if with an additional statement from the manufacturer (in line with what's required for sockets as per 722.55.201.1 (i))

- Andy.
 07 January 2018 11:55 AM
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Fm

Posts: 1780
Joined: 24 August 2011

http://www.theiet.org/resources/standards/ev-cop.cfm

Is a good reference book, I have a copy when I was looking into EV charging for work.
 07 January 2018 05:28 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 6985
Joined: 27 December 2005

The standard for EVs these days is known as a "type 2" connector. These are a 7 pin connector, which includes two pilot cores for Comms between the vehicle and the charging point. The socket is usually dead, and commands from the vehicle turn the supply on. We ended up having to buy a special adaptor box that mimics a vehicle to allow standard test kit to be used. It has a type 2 connector to connect to the charging point, and gives a BS1363 socket for connecting loop or red testers etc.

Regards,

Alan.
 13 January 2018 03:42 PM
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Zs

Posts: 3842
Joined: 20 July 2006

Hello,

3.7kW.

I've not been round yet but he bought the lead(s) to me.

Well, it is melted and quite badly so, but he has been running it through a 0.75mm trailing extension cable from an outdoor socket and the terminal of the extension cable is also burned. Closer inspection reveals what was probably a loose terminal, albeit it is a bit corroded by now. The screw was loose though.

I have suggested that the infrastructure for the charging be upgraded so that an extension cable is not required. I' like to see that as a fixed commando socket outlet really, and under shelter from the rain.

I'm curious to see the outlets that you describe though JP.

Your post is interesting Alan, I'm off to look that up.

Zs
 13 January 2018 04:37 PM
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broadgage

Posts: 2486
Joined: 07 August 2007

3.7KW is in excess of that available from a 13 amp socket.
In fact it is probably about the worst possible overload for a 13 amp plug !
Much more than that would blow the plug fuse in a reasonable time.

But 3.7KW would be about 15 or 16 amps which would be passed for hours by an average 13 amp fuse.

And 0.75mm flex is much too small, 1.5mm would be the minimum and 2.5 would be better.

Even a 16 amp ceeform plug is marginal for a long hour load of 3.7KW. No great accuracy can be claimed as to the exact current used without knowing the design mains voltage, the actual voltage supplied, and how the charger reacts to changes in input voltage.

But defo no 13 amp plugs nor 0.75mm cable.
 13 January 2018 07:30 PM
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Zs

Posts: 3842
Joined: 20 July 2006

I agree with all of the above Broadgage

I'm sure it can be sorted without the need for sophisticated logging kit...I was looking forward to that too. But instead, I'll get my trusty screwdrivers out and pop to the wholesaler on the way.

I've been looking at vehicle chargers today. Not so much extra on the cost of such a fantastic car I reckon.

Zs
 14 January 2018 10:43 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 9795
Joined: 22 July 2004

The 13A plug will carry 20A long enough to overheat the socket to a point where the springs in the socket that grip the pins lose their bounce, and ever after are loose and arc, and also hot enough that if the plug is pulled and the pins touched soon after, they can blister flesh.
In many ways the 13A plug and the spec for the fuse, is a product of it's rather austere time of creation, and can be rather marginal in terms of the overload protection the 13A fuse provides.
Un-fused 2-way adaptor anyone?

-------------------------
regards Mike
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