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Topic Title: 18th Edition Exam
Topic Summary: Any comments ?
Created On: 06 September 2018 03:35 PM
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 15 September 2018 09:35 AM
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chrispearson

Posts: 539
Joined: 15 February 2018

Originally posted by: davezawadi

You ought to have a copy of the BBB as you may fall foul of the rules, which is the BBB only depending on the invigilator, and he is quite strict!


Obstacles, obstacles! At school we had to cover all our textbooks with brown paper.

Or I could pull the cover of BBB off and put it on BYB - with 64 extra pages, it should fit easily.

You are allowed to mark / tag this as you like.


Yes indeed. It is helpful to tag the first page of each chapter as well as topics such as current carrying capacities, and trip times.
 15 September 2018 10:30 AM
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lyledunn

Posts: 1205
Joined: 13 August 2003

Having delivered the 17th on at least a monthly basis over the past 10 years, around 1000 candidates would have sat the exam. Not one single failure was recorded. So the trend continues with the 18th. After five full courses and one update, no one has fallen and all say that the structure is as predicted. Assuming that the Guilds haven't dumbed down specially for us Paddies, it is difficult to understand why folk across the pond are failing. I have had candidates form all parts of Eastern Europe, a guy from Hong Kong and even the odd sprinkling of Englishmen so it can't be a language or cultural issue. Nor indeed would I accept that the tutor has any special gift. One thing I don't do, mind you, is assault fellas with Powepoint!


-------------------------
Regards,

Lyle Dunn
 15 September 2018 10:55 AM
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sparkingchip

Posts: 11273
Joined: 18 January 2003

The invigilator checked our books and said mine was the cleanest she had probably ever seen, the corrections our tutor pointed out as being required were in there along with a couple of seizes of highlighting pen, but nothing substantial.

What our tutor kept drilling into us was to open the book at the front rather than going straight to the back.

I got a little bit less than John, but beat Alan and that will do very nicely.Ta! It only says pass on the certificate, the actual mark will never be of importance.

Andy B.
 05 October 2018 06:38 AM
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Dave69

Posts: 744
Joined: 16 July 2011

After taking the exam yesterday I have to say, what a con
£400 for a three day course, best part of a hundred quid for a nice new book and all a waste of money.
I walked out the exam in under an hour as my bladder was telling me it was time to empty the contents of my lunch time drinks and I still managed 88% and if anyone wants to buy a nice new book mine is still in mint condition. Come on people whats all the fuss about, we are sposed to be sparks and most of the questions are just common sence
 05 October 2018 09:26 AM
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John Peckham

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Joined: 23 April 2005

Dave

You must be exceptional as that is not the usual view of students doing the exam.

I did a one day course in Suffolk yesterday for Stroma and once again the students coming out of the exam saying in very colourful language it was a lot harder than the 17th and the 16th. All but one student taking the full 2 hours.

It was particularly pleasing for me to see two young lads who both told me they were good practically but had problems with exams both pass. Both were elated and grinning from ear to ear when handed their result slips. One gave me a hug which was a first for me in 15 years of teaching electrical subjects.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 05 October 2018 09:33 AM
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jonny705

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Reading this with obvious interest as deciding to book the Stroma course or just the exam which they let you do - (and at a reasonable rate- I have seen other places wanting £150 for you to sit exam for instance.)

I cannot see it being much different to the 17 th one TBH - the thing that course brought home to me is it's all about Interpreting the sometimes confusing questions and trying to work out what they actually want.

The other main thing was it showed me how little I used the Regs book and therefore found it very hard to navigate and basically find the answers ,even know I kind of knew them if that makes sense?

I think having the onsite guides over the years - which for me as a domestic ,means majority of the regulations needed , I can easily find and meant the actually regs book is left un-used.
I think if ALL there was to refer too was the Regs book, although initially it would be very hard - you eventually would be able to navigate it quickly - and most people would ace the course.

That above exam taught me to start looking at the regs book more often - when I do loads of PIR's, I would go through all the checkbox regulations and look them up - it really is good practice for helping you remember/find a particular regulation and helped me a lot.

The marking of the pages with stick it notes-and often used things like Zs tables , proves to me that the average person sitting the exam don't flick open that book very often - if you did you simply would not need them markers , or likely any course to show you how to navigate the index.

I wonder how many pass the exam, but the first time they need to find something it's like speak into phone - "cable calculations regulations" and get the answer without considering the book?
 05 October 2018 08:37 PM
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chrispearson

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Got my practice questions from Stroma this week - only one q to which the answer was "none of the above".
 05 October 2018 09:55 PM
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John Peckham

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Chris

Which question was that?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 07 October 2018 12:27 PM
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davezawadi

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An interesting answer is to be expected John, as I am sure my answers are all correct, and none of them contain answer (E).

-------------------------
David
BSc CEng MIET
david@ZawadiSoundAndLighting.co.uk
 07 October 2018 12:50 PM
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justinneedham

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@alanblaby. Did you find many examples of the book being taken too literally leading to those type of rather silly questions which just come across fussy for the sake of it? - For example running through the on-line 18th update revision course (NICEIC/Elecsa) we have gems such as "Which of the following is NOT considered a source of electromagnetic disturbance?" And the choice is rectifiers, busbars, motors or halogen hob. Now the BBB reads "Potential sources typically include.." What it doesn't go on to say say is "Halogen hobs are not considered to be a source of electromagnetic disturbance". (Halogen hobs, in this example, being the correct answer). So this is clearly *****, and is just the testers assessing the student on ability to regurgitate an incorrect extrapolation which was never intended by the authors of BS7671.
 07 October 2018 06:00 PM
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mholmesltd

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I don't regard myself as one of the very clever academic electricians out in the field but I do try and do the best job I can given the constraints of project time and money. I recently sat the three day course run by the NICEIC in Preston, Pat who did the bit at the front letting us know where to find the answers in the BBB was brilliant. Some of the questions were on items I've never been involved with and am not likely to come across in my working day. I was disappointed to get 92% as I was aiming for 100% and even more disappointed not to know where I had gone wrong how am I supposed to learn from my mistakes if I don't know where I've made them. I now need to replace my multifunction tester but which one will test all these RCDs.
 07 October 2018 06:59 PM
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John Peckham

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No one as yet has scored 60 out of 60 on the Stroma courses. I think only 3 or 4 scoring 59 and plenty in the 50'odd range but no one yet has hit the jackpot.

I am keen to beat my fellow trainers to get the first 100% but only 3 courses left for me in the South East this year with more opportunities for my fellow trainers to be first. I am going to have a go myself but last week I did my ECS H&S test and did not get 100% so does not bode well!

Mholemeslltd

I understand the NICEIC run the EAL exam not C&G. Does the EAL have 4 credible answers for each question to pick from or can 2 be discarded quickly to leave to pick from? That used to be the format on the 16th and 17th but the C&G have made it more difficult.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 07 October 2018 07:07 PM
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chrispearson

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Joined: 15 February 2018

Originally posted by: John Peckham

Chris

Which question was that?


John,

I cannot quite remember. I am away on a busman's holiday for the next week (hence the question about absence of bonding) and I have left it at home.

I shall rack may brains.
 07 October 2018 07:13 PM
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John Peckham

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Chris

I wrote the questions so I am keen to know?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 07 October 2018 07:24 PM
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chrispearson

Posts: 539
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John,

Unfortunately, I do not have access at the moment to the questions 'cos they are on my 'puter at home, but if you could get the office to e-mail them again tomorrow, I shall be able to recognise the question.

Of course, the answer may have been one of the above after all and I won't get 100%.
 07 October 2018 09:50 PM
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mholmesltd

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John Peckham

The course was advertised as the City & Guilds so as far as I am aware that is the exam we took.

Most of the four answers given could not be discounted off hand.

I found 50% of the questions could be answered without reference to the BBB 25% took a quick confirmation and the other 25% made me scratch my head. The questions I left to the end went something like this.

In which situation can fault protection be omitted
Four answers were given one of them being - steel reinforced concrete poles of overhead lines in which the steel reinforcement is not accessible.

What is the minimum CSA of a signalling conductor when used in an IT cable
Four answers were given.

I assumed there would be a lot more questions on RCD types, vehicle chargers, surge protection and AFDD as they also seem to be hot topics at the moment.
I still can't get any prices from my suppliers for AFDD, it all seams a bit rushed and the manufactures are still trying to catch up.

Mark
 10 October 2018 08:38 PM
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paultrimble

Posts: 25
Joined: 22 March 2008

Completed the C&G full 18th Regs course today, disappointed to say the least as I managed a 95% pass but was aiming for 60/60. I know at least one of the questions that threw me and having taken stock since the exam I'm embarrassed that I got it wrong. Not sure on the other two I got incorrect but I suspect one was to do with factoring of cables in trunking, put it down to exam nerves and trying to rush through my answers.
Ah well, another course completed,onto the next
 10 October 2018 09:14 PM
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IronFreely

Posts: 359
Joined: 06 November 2014

Originally posted by: mholmesltd

I now need to replace my multifunction tester but which one will test all these RCDs.


Can I ask what's changed that means your usual installation tester won't be up to the job?
 13 October 2018 12:10 PM
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davezawadi

Posts: 4175
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If you are considering the extensions to table 53.1 then don't worry as the higher values are for MCCBs and Earth fault relays and are not covered by MFTs. Test instruments should comply with EN 61557, which lists the general requirements and accuracy expected. Modern MFTs should comply.

-------------------------
David
BSc CEng MIET
david@ZawadiSoundAndLighting.co.uk
 13 October 2018 06:50 PM
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chrispearson

Posts: 539
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Originally posted by: chrispearson

Originally posted by: John Peckham


Chris

Which question was that?


John,

I cannot quite remember. I am away on a busman's holiday for the next week (hence the question about absence of bonding) and I have left it at home.

I shall rack may brains.


John, I have returned home. Q10.

Based upon 411.3.2.2, I assume that the correct answer is (c). I can see that any type of final circuit (be it fixed or using socket outlets) not exceeding 32 A must be protected by a device which disconnects within the maximum time stated in Table 41.1, so (c) is true. However, there are other circuits which must be disconnected just as quickly - i.e. sockets outlets not exceeding 63A. Therefore, IMHO, (c) is the truth, but not the whole truth.

In this instance (a), (b), and (d) may easily be eliminated, so (c) would be my answer in the exam.

David Z. we can discuss further when I 'see you next Tuesday'.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » 18th Edition Exam

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