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Topic Title: MCP siting Grade A Fire systems
Topic Summary: Storey exits?
Created On: 12 July 2018 05:02 PM
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 12 July 2018 05:02 PM
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DKA

Posts: 4
Joined: 15 May 2015

Apologies if any of this is I inaccurate as I don't have texts to hand...
I'm not clear about the siting of manual call points in Grade A systems. Just looking to clarify a couple of issues:

I see a lot of HMO properties which consist of a converted townhouse. 3 floors with locked bedrooms and a communal escape stairway. Some have MCP's on each floor in the landing and some don't.

I was under the impression that they are required at all "storey exits" and at all final exits".

My understanding is that a "storey exit" is an actual exit door onto the stairwell compartment with the preferred location for the MCP being in the hallway (accommodation side of storey exit) - not just a turn on the stairs down to the next floor as this is effectively in the same compartment? Any views on this?

Also ive seen downstairs converted locked bedrooms with Patio doors to the back garden with and without call points. Technically this is a final exit, thought not part of the communal escape route. In my mind that makes it need a call point. Again what are any views on this... (apart from the fact that they now need an emergency light above the doorway because of the call point siting - which makes a wonderful bedtime nightlight )

David

Edited: 13 July 2018 at 09:41 PM by DKA
 13 July 2018 04:51 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 11436
Joined: 22 July 2004

This is for fire or panic alarms in the UK am I right ? If so it may help to 'edit' the top post and say so in the title, as its not that clear what it is about. (I'm not an alarm specialist but there are a few on here do that sort of works quite often.)

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regards Mike
 13 July 2018 05:38 PM
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OMS

Posts: 22727
Joined: 23 March 2004

I would ignore the patio door exit - the rational being the occupants are effectively a family group or similar and thus only the occupant of the room is likely to use the patio doors

You are correct regarding the "storey" exit - and what is often missing in "conversions" is the landing door into the escape stairs - it doesn't need to be there in a conversion. From a fire MCP perspective, we tend to assume that it is there however and put the MCP on each landing as required for BS 5839-1. Basically the requirement is that you shouldn't be able to leave the building (final exit) or a storey of that building without having to pass a call point. Obviously there are also limits on the travel distances between MCP's

See BS 5839-1:2017 Section 20.2(d) when you get back in contact with your paperwork - worth reading the commentary to this section to give you the understanding of why we need to do this

Regards

OMS

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Let the wind blow you, across a big floor.
 13 July 2018 06:39 PM
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alancapon

Posts: 7364
Joined: 27 December 2005

It is also important to read the 2017 version of the standard, as there have been a few important updates. For example, each MCP requires a protective cover such as a hinged plastic flap to minimise accidental operation. The locations at building exits has changed too. I can't remember the exact wording, but it is something like at each exit from the building, apart from those that do not lead to free space. An example of this would be a door to an enclosed courtyard.

Regards,

Alan.
 13 July 2018 09:53 PM
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DKA

Posts: 4
Joined: 15 May 2015

I'm not up to date on the 2017 information so will have to check that out properly. I've never yet seen a hinge cover on an MCP in a HMO. I see them more on public areas where nuisance operation is involved. Will check out what you say though about the move towards mitigating accidental operation.

Thanks for the info all. It appears I have lots of reading to do...

David
 14 July 2018 12:47 PM
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Dave69

Posts: 751
Joined: 16 July 2011

From your post it isn't clear if you are installing a system, designing one or just interested because you live in the premises.

As a rough guide use the following. But you really need to read the FRA

Assuming occupants are familiar with the building layout they should not have to travel more than 45mtrs to a MCP. It should be less in places like hotals and B&B etc.
MCPs must be located at ALL doors that lead to fresh air
MCPs should be located at all storey exits

There is a requirement for MCPs to be fitted with some type of cover unless the FRA says otherwise, also the FRA May require extra MCP and you really need to have sight of the document before you carry out any work
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