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Topic Title: Where to with part P?
Topic Summary: Parliament may be looking to strengthen part P.
Created On: 07 July 2018 12:07 PM
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 07 July 2018 12:07 PM
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sparkingchip

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 07 July 2018 12:17 PM
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potential

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......... someone we can place our faith and trust in.....
That is likely to be the major problem.
And where is the money going to come from to perform the overseeing required?
 07 July 2018 12:23 PM
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dustydazzler

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Load of old waffle if you ask me , And amongst all the blah blah blah a slight dig at the current QS system

Partpee is a joke and the people trying to write the legislation even bigger jokers
 07 July 2018 01:00 PM
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sparkingchip

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Originally posted by: potential

......... someone we can place our faith and trust in.....

That is likely to be the major problem.

And where is the money going to come from to perform the overseeing required?


The Dame said organisations overseen by UKAS.

Right from the very beginning there should have been a ten or twenty pence levy on every notification to fund enforcement, over the time it has been running there could have been enough collected to make significant inroads on enforcement.
 07 July 2018 01:04 PM
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dustydazzler

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Who actually enforces partpee ?

Scams simply collect their annual £500 to prove competence

Once they have banked their £500 they couldn't give a rats what you or I do in someone's home

The overseeing must surely come from borough councils ??
 07 July 2018 01:08 PM
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daveparry1

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They won't be getting any more £500's from me Dusty, i'm always busy with non-notifiable stuff!
 07 July 2018 01:12 PM
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dustydazzler

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Likewise , I was very very close to joining a scam last year. Mainly to setup as a 3pv. But decided against it and just banked my £500

I have added new circuits recently and didn't notify anybody...... the house is still standing

I called the local borough council to ask what I should do , they didn't have a clue what I was on about 'new circuits' and 'test certification'

I rest my case
 07 July 2018 01:17 PM
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daveparry1

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I think there are going to be a lot of "extensions & alterations to existing circuits" in the future Dusty!
 07 July 2018 01:18 PM
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Fitzy71

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Personally I think the public needs educating in what "Part P" is and what it actually means. I've recently lost out on 2 non-notifiable jobs because the customers insisted I had to be registered with NICEIC etc just to add 2 double sockets on one job and move 3 double kitchen sockets on the other job, all because "my friend said ALL electrical work must be carried out by an NICEIC (or other) registered electrician".....

Edited: 07 July 2018 at 03:57 PM by Fitzy71
 07 July 2018 01:18 PM
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dustydazzler

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And fuse board changes that come under 'like for like' changes with no 'new' work
 07 July 2018 01:20 PM
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dustydazzler

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Originally posted by: Fitzy71

Personally I think the public needs educating in what "Part P" is and what it actually means. I've recently lost out on 2 non-notifiable jobs because the customers insisted I had to be registered with NICEIC etc just to add 2 double sockets on one job and move 3 double kitchen sockets on the other job, all because "my friend said ALL electrical must be carried out by an NICEIC (or other) registered electrician".....


This is a big problem imo

I even get home owners asking if I'm partpee qualified as all electricians need to be partpee qualified
 07 July 2018 02:49 PM
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sparkingchip

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Although the customers may not understand the process or terminology, it is not at all unreasonable for them to ask if you are qualified to the level that would allow you to apply for registration as a competent person-electrical, even if you are not registered and doing non-notifiable electrical work along with asking for confirmation of your insurance cover.

If you are Gas Safe registered or registered as an electrical enterprise they could verify this online, as well as asking to see your ID card.

Andy B.
 07 July 2018 03:54 PM
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dustydazzler

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Like Partpee , GasSafe (corgi) isn't a qualification , it doesn't actually prove anything

A non registered plumber could be equally good competent as a registered plumber
 07 July 2018 04:40 PM
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Zoomup

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The discussion was prompted by the Grenfell Tower tragedy I believe, as high rise buildings were mentioned and the competency of the trades people that work in them. A distinction was made between appliance testing and work on the fabric of a building. Interesting, as the fire started apparently behind a tall fridge freezer in Grenfell Tower. The competency of three day wonders was included in the discussion and the overseeing of such people by overseers. The need for formal certificates of competency to prove that a trade's person was fully skilled and qualified to undertake the work is essential was mentioned as well. Better evidence of where things are failing is required. Apparently anyone can call themselves a fire engineer without proof of competency or formal qualifications. The poor competency of Part P members was alluded to.

We can't beat the old tried and tested apprenticeship schemes of old where a person trained for a sufficient period, perhaps years, and worked alongside a qualified and seasoned person to pick up the necessary skills.

Z.
 07 July 2018 04:45 PM
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geoffsd

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Isn't this the same committee that was told in 2012 how useless the system was; leading to them removing most of the pertinent parts - i.e. the ancillary trades' involvement - of the notifiable work list?
 07 July 2018 06:24 PM
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sparkingchip

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Probably.

What about the comment that anyone can legally undertake many electrical installation tasks in high risk properties such as high rise tower block flats sold leasehold?

To me trying to determine what constitutes a high risk domestic property to control who undertakes electrical installation work in them is far more problematical than having the same rules and regulations for all domestic properties.

Andy B
 07 July 2018 11:39 PM
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sparkingchip

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Last July the operators of two Competent Person-Electrical registration schemes advised their registrants to stop self certifying electrical work in high rise flats over 18 metres and go through the LABC to get it signed off.

I have signed work off in such buildings in the past, but would have to think long and hard about doing so in the current climate.

So given an electrician's quote with the LABC fees to be added on top, how many leaseholders of flats in high rise buildings will have a go at doing the installation themselves or using a contractor who will crack on and not bother notifying?
 07 July 2018 11:44 PM
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sparkingchip

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And who wants to do the testing and inspection work for the LABC?
 08 July 2018 12:45 AM
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mapj1

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well unless the govt. funds the training of building inspectors, I imagine they will just ring round and get a different sparks of comparable calibre in to take a look at it, rather as they do now.

Maybe what we want is A National Association of Professional Inspectors and Testers, to over see the work of some association of Electrical Installation Contractors. Ah, but we have all the bits for that, they just don't work together.
We also need to remember why bits were taken out of being notifiable under part P following the 2013 review, and that reason was mainly that it was not working as intended, and part of that was the local authorities inability to handle what would be needed for them to do the job they had been given.
The other thread is that the whole supervisor scheme works against small companies working properly, and in favour of large 'body shop' operations with one supervisor and lots of minions who are only supervised in a very loose sense.
Anything that makes anyone notifying the job the official way more expensive or less profitable than some one doing an equally safe sound but not registered job will encourage a black market in stuff that happens overnight, or in keeping stuff going that should have been replaced.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 08 July 2018 04:02 AM
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dustydazzler

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We will probably end up with the Americans system where the home owner / contractor / electricians apply for a permit to work on a dwelling.
Once the job is complete , the work gets a visual inspection and then signed off as complete.
I believe the cost of a permit to work varies from state to state but are between $50_$80 per job site.
I guess this covers your inspection and sign off
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Where to with part P?

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