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Topic Title: Lock Off or Lock Out Padlock.
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Created On: 13 June 2018 08:45 PM
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 13 June 2018 08:45 PM
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Zoomup

Posts: 5048
Joined: 20 February 2014

The Master lock off or lock out padlock is very good quality. In fact it has a better level of protection than many shed or bike chain padlocks from the point of view of picking, although not very physically strong. It is normally sold with only one key so that there is little chance of somebody else switching on a circuit whilst it is being worked on. Some lock sport people take out the cylinder core of these pad locks and put them into bigger Master padlocks to improve the pick resistance of the bigger padlock. This video shows that the lock sport guy takes quite some time to pick one of these lock out padlocks even though he is skilled at it. The padlock has security anti-pick pins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VinfqZfCgFw

Z.
 13 June 2018 10:15 PM
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broadgage

Posts: 2926
Joined: 07 August 2007

I must admit that lock off padlocks with only 1 key make me a bit nervous, I have a fear of locking of something crucial and then loosing the key.
Although this is NOT official best practice, I often use a lock with two keys. I keep BOTH the keys with me, in different pockets.
 13 June 2018 10:22 PM
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chrispearson

Posts: 530
Joined: 15 February 2018

Originally posted by: Zoomup

The Master lock off or lock out padlock is very good quality. ... It is normally sold with only one key ...


Which is why you need to keep a note of the serial number.

Whilst it is reassuring to know that the locks are difficult to pick, the weak (very weak) link in the chain is the dolly fixture. It may not help you in the PM room, but if somebody has removed one (with a good strong pull), it does at least indicate wrong doing.
 13 June 2018 10:24 PM
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perspicacious

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Is the lock immune to padlock shims?

Regards

BOD
 14 June 2018 12:06 AM
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KFH

Posts: 720
Joined: 06 November 2010

My BIL was the H&S manager for a large manufacturing company undergoing a H&S investigation following a serious electrical incident. During the investigation he was explaining the lock out/off process and the director level of authorisation required, as they would have the key, to remove the lock. The inspector asked what would happen if the director was at home or had gone out and was not available to authorise the removal. My BIL explained they would not energise. The foreman electrician then .interjected "but if we get really desperate we have copies of all the lock keys in my desk so we can energise!"

The H&S inspector later told my BIL that they had a good laugh when they got back to the office about the look on my BIL's face when the foreman said that and regularly remembered it when they were having a bad day.

Afterwards a lot of high quality locks were available free to anyone at the company who wanted them.

My master lock key is on the van keyring so I have a real problem if it gets lost.
 14 June 2018 09:28 AM
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ebee

Posts: 6532
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Originally posted by: perspicacious

Is the lock immune to padlock shims?



Regards



BOD


What is that?

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 14 June 2018 10:01 AM
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mapj1

Posts: 11252
Joined: 22 July 2004

A shim is a piece of metal you slip down into the mechanism between the padlock hasp and body, to open the catch that allows you to click the lock shut without the key- rather like the trick with a plastic bottle and a Yale lock. The tool looks normally like a curved piece of feeler blade.
Good padlocks have a step in the hasp diameter to catch this sort of thing.
Equally, the lock off is only really designed to keep honest people honest, not to be impossible to bypass, as clearly there will always be a way of getting power to the out going circuit past any lock off. It does not need to hold off a concerted assault to a higher degree than the rest of the installation.

-------------------------
regards Mike
 15 June 2018 12:51 PM
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OMS

Posts: 22696
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Originally posted by: perspicacious

Is the lock immune to padlock shims?

Regards

BOD


Don't be naughty, BoD - you'll be suggesting that some of us have access to "ground out" Castell keys next

OMS

-------------------------
Let the wind blow you, across a big floor.
 16 June 2018 03:29 PM
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Zoomup

Posts: 5048
Joined: 20 February 2014

Originally posted by: ebee

Originally posted by: perspicacious



Is the lock immune to padlock shims?







Regards







BOD




What is that?


Demo of shimming http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC-1S4cHUPs

Z.
 16 June 2018 05:21 PM
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HarryJMacdonald

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Joined: 15 May 2002

I have come across an interesting divergence of opinion as to whether an installation should have padlocks with all the same keys or all different keys or random, (i.e. probably different but it has not been confirmed they all are).
The advantage of all the same is that all the competent persons can switch as required at any time, but it does rely on competent persons being competent. The advantage of different keys is that the electrician who might get killed can keep the key in his/her pocket, but this gets complicated it there are several working on the system.
Also, with the different key system, do you have a key and padlock designated for each lockable item or try to keep track of which one was used where each time?
Any thoughts?
 16 June 2018 06:20 PM
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chrispearson

Posts: 530
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Well, this sort of industrial situation is beyond my experience, but shouldn't each competent person have his (or her) own padlock and unique key?

If the padlocks were keyed alike: first, anybody could remove any of the locks. Whilst you might think that a competent person might not do so, mistakes can happen. Second, there would be no point in having multi-lock hasps.
 16 June 2018 06:54 PM
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Zoomup

Posts: 5048
Joined: 20 February 2014

I reckon that it is safest if all electricians/plumbers/multi-skilled tradespersons etc. have a unique personal padlock and key. The padlocks can be fitted to a multi-padlock lock off device as shown in the link. http://www.tester.co.uk/compac...hoEAQYBCABEgIAJvD_BwE

The machine or apparatus can only be turned on when the last person has finished working and their padlock is removed..

Z.
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