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Topic Title: E.V. Crash Fire.
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Created On: 16 May 2018 08:03 AM
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 16 May 2018 08:03 AM
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Zoomup

Posts: 4692
Joined: 20 February 2014

An unfortunate E.V. car crash that ended in a fire. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...-explodes-flames.html

Z.
 16 May 2018 10:12 AM
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broadgage

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Most unfortunate, but not perhaps an argument against EVs, petrol is arguably at least as a great a risk.
To propel a vehicle for a reasonable distance at an acceptable speed requires a high energy density power source. Any damage to a large energy dense system carries the risk of sudden and uncontrolled release of that energy.
 16 May 2018 10:39 AM
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mapj1

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Imagine the problems of a crash on the starship enterprise.
The damage is proportional to the available energy.
Burnt well, a full tank of fuel in a small car (I assumed 8 gallons) could in theory put the driver into a geostationary orbit around the earth with a bit left over (assume 100kg, and g= 10newtons per kilo ). How far do you want to go today? However the saving grace is that you don't get all the energy out at once,and its a long way from 100% efficient.
Not all energy storage is equal, a large Mars bar and a stick of dynamite have roughly equivalent energy of combustion, only one is a sensible thing to keep in your jacket pocket, and one only releases the energy slowly.

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regards Mike
 16 May 2018 03:52 PM
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rogerbryant

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The problem here is more what can the emergency services do? In the case of a petrol fires they have an appropriate foam like spray (light water?). What can they do with a lithium battery fire?

Best regards

Roger
 16 May 2018 04:14 PM
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mapj1

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Dry powder is the normal thing for small L-ion battery fires, but to be honest, if its big and outdoors sand, earth, cat litter, or even the rock salt used for road gritting , are all better than nothing, or indeed better than water.
I presume as fire crews currently train with foam for petrol and diesel oil fires, they will also need to train for batteries. I was quite surprised to see that the batteries in commercial electric cars are actually hundreds of cells of not much more than torch battery size - perhaps this also reduces the amount that gets released at once.

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regards Mike
 16 May 2018 04:45 PM
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rocknroll

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The problem here is more what can the emergency services do? In the case of a petrol fires they have an appropriate foam like spray (light water?). What can they do with a lithium battery fire?


Well the emergency services could not save this one either in a non EV vehicle so the odds are the same

Former Aston Villa and Bolton defender Jlloyd Samuel died in a car crash after dropping his kids off at school today.

According to the Trinidad and Tobago Football Association, the 37-year-old's car collided with an oncoming vehicle.

His car caught fire after the smash near Warrington and he died in the wreckage

Regards.

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"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
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"Oh! The drama of it all."
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"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
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 16 May 2018 10:13 PM
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alancapon

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Originally posted by: mapj1
Dry powder is the normal thing for small L-ion battery fires, but to be honest, if its big and outdoors sand, earth, cat litter, or even the rock salt used for road gritting , are all better than nothing, or indeed better than water. . .

I know a mobile phone or laptop has a much smaller battery, but the advice from the airline regulators is to place the item in a bucket of water. Their reasoning is that it will cool the battery and slow the reaction. They go on to say that a split battery will expose lithium compounds that are not particularly reactive with water, rather than lithium metal which is.

Regards,

Alan.
 17 May 2018 10:11 AM
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arg

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Originally posted by: alancapon

I know a mobile phone or laptop has a much smaller battery, but the advice from the airline regulators is to place the item in a bucket of water. Their reasoning is that it will cool the battery and slow the reaction. They go on to say that a split battery will expose lithium compounds that are not particularly reactive with water, rather than lithium metal which is.


Similar advice is given for EV fires, emphasising the use of large volumes of water.

Examples:

https://www.nfpa.org/Training-and-Events/By-topic/Alternative-Fuel-Vehicle-Safety-Training/Emergency-Response-Guides/Nissan

https://www.nfpa.org/Training-and-Events/By-topic/Alternative-Fuel-Vehicle-Safety-Training/Emergency-Response-Guides/Tesla
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