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Topic Title: Reversed polarity at socket - where on EICR?
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Created On: 04 April 2014 10:50 AM
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 04 April 2014 10:50 AM
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BrucieBonus

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HI everyone

Where would you report this in the inspection second on the EICR?

Maybe I am being a bit dumb but I couldn't see anywhere obvious, so plumped for 5.1 - identification of conductors - code C1 with a note in the comments section.
 04 April 2014 11:27 AM
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OMS

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Reg 132.14 and 612.6 (iii) I by proxy of 634.1 would say

Noted under Section K - observations

Code C1, as you say

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 04 April 2014 12:22 PM
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aligarjon

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how would you come off on this by leaving it in service or would you isolate it. i only do domestics generally and so long as its just on the one socket its not worth all the faffing around as you already have the face off. you might as well put it right.

Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 04 April 2014 12:35 PM
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perspicacious

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"you might as well put it right"

So not letting the client know of the original perpetrator's sins?

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BOD
 04 April 2014 12:51 PM
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sparkingchip

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Why C1 ? There isn't an immediate danger is there?
 04 April 2014 12:51 PM
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BrucieBonus

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Thanks OMS

Gary - It was an outside socket that was behind a massive flowerpot - i could just get my loop tester in, but not able to remove the socket front. Ordinarily I would have done it there and then - but this needs a few people to move the pot!
 04 April 2014 12:55 PM
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OMS

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Originally posted by: sparkingchip

Why C1 ? There isn't an immediate danger is there?


I would say that it has the potential for immediate danger, yes

We don't know how far the extent of wrong polarity goes at this point.

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OMS

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Failure is always an option
 04 April 2014 12:58 PM
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OMS

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but this needs a few people to move the pot!


I know a few people who could move it for you, if you split it up into eighths and supply the rizzla papers

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OMS

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 04 April 2014 01:35 PM
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sparkingchip

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I think I'd tend to go C2 potentially dangerous, before anyone starts dismantling an appliance plugged into a socket they should isolate by pulling the plug out and before anyone else says it, most appliances aren't polarised anyway.
 04 April 2014 01:41 PM
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joepostle

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Single-pole switching and fusing on neutral side.
 04 April 2014 02:03 PM
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sparkingchip

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Really only applicable if you are going to take a appliance apart without unplugging it, you may assume the appliance is disconnected, but unless you damage the insulation or remove a cover it isn't immediately dangerous, it is potentially dangerous.

If stating C1 the next step would be to turn the main switch off and advise the user of the installation that they turn it back on at their own risk leaving them to make the call.

Andy
 04 April 2014 02:17 PM
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OMS

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If stating C1 the next step would be to turn the main switch off and advise the user of the installation that they turn it back on at their own risk leaving them to make the call.


Advise the user of the potential danger for sure - turn it off by agreement for sure - I wouldn't suggest turning it off without discussion with the owner however, that's not actually your obligation.

Assuming the reversed polarity is just at the socket, advising the user not to use it would be more appropriate.

Regards

OMS

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 04 April 2014 02:24 PM
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sparkingchip

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If you are carrying out a EICR then you have turned the installation off for testing, are you the really going to say it is immediately dangerous with items coded C1 and turn it back on for them?

Better to say it is off and it is up to them to make the decision to turn it back on, actually physically disabling the installation by removing components to "cap it off" would be going beyond your obligations.

Andy
 04 April 2014 02:48 PM
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OMS

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Originally posted by: sparkingchip

If you are carrying out a EICR then you have turned the installation off for testing,

Yes, for testing, for a pre determined and agreed time.

are you the really going to say it is immediately dangerous with items coded C1 and turn it back on for them?

Yes, depending on the nature of the problem - the C1 doesn't extend to the whole installation as far as we know - isolating the local circuit by agreement would be more like it. If this was a large office block for example, would you be turning off the building main switch - or taking more appropriate action at a much more local level


Better to say it is off and it is up to them to make the decision to turn it back on, actually physically disabling the installation by removing components to "cap it off" would be going beyond your obligations.

It's not your installation, and we try not to wear our pants outside our trousers - unless I was seeing an immediate and clear risk of fire, burns or shock to persons, I wouldn't be turning anything off without client approval.

Andy


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OMS

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Failure is always an option
 04 April 2014 03:11 PM
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sparkingchip

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It avoid labouring a point, I'll conclude with I'd code the reversed polarity at a socket as C2- potentially dangerous and turn the installation back on having put a sticky label on the socket stating " Rejected- Do not use" or having switched the connections around for them.

Reversed polarity is at sockets is a common problem that I find without even looking for them! Recently I alter a circuit upstairs in a bedroom and rather than walking up and down stairs I plugged the RCD tester into the socket just installed by the kitchen fitters electrician next to the consumer unit and found it was reverse polarity, so altered it around for them. I did the same at another house pugging the RCD tester into a socket adjacent to the consumer unit in the recently installed kitchen and found the newly installed circuit in the kitchen had no earth continuity at any of the sockets, on that occasion I did say I had turn the kitchen sockets off and it was up to them if they turned them on advising that they get the "electricians" back.

Those circuits did not even pass testing with a fifteen quid neon/ LED plugtop tester as this socket that Bruciebonus describes wouldn't have, all a bit basic really!

Andy
 04 April 2014 03:24 PM
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OMS

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Can't argue with that Andy - I was simply offering some caution against assuming duties and taking actions that aren't really the obligation for the electrician on site - throwing the main switch for a wrong polarity socket seemed a bit extreme to my mind.

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 04 April 2014 05:12 PM
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BrucieBonus

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Ooo, you've all been busy!

The client advised me that the socket didn't work as it tripped the RCD when anything was plugged in (not surprising really!) and so it wasn't used. In fact she'd had a new socket installed outside (not by me) so that she could use the lawnmower. Obviously not done by an electrician as they would have checked the existing socket first (unless they needed the work, I suppose)
 04 April 2014 05:17 PM
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OMS

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I blame your pot, Brucie - made us all a bit garrulous

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 04 April 2014 05:57 PM
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BrucieBonus

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but surely you didn't inhale.....
 04 April 2014 06:05 PM
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OMS

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Inhale ? - Hell, yes

I'm just sitting watching flowers in the rain, now

OMS

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