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Topic Title: PI insurance
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Created On: 04 October 2013 05:18 PM
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 04 October 2013 05:18 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 5879
Joined: 04 July 2007

Hi all,

I know this has been discussed many times before but is the general opinion that we need PI insurance or not? I've been with Zurich (now distributed through Trade Direct) for about seven years and have always been fairly happy with their quotes. This time my renewal from them has come in at £150, but I've had a quote from AXA for £60. The difference is that Zurich provide 50k of PI in addition to the £2m of PL cover. I do the (very) occasional EICR and an wondering if I do need the PI cover or not? Any opinions on this very welcome,

Dave.
 04 October 2013 05:47 PM
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psychicwarrior

Posts: 189
Joined: 18 October 2010

Hi Dave

i had a long discussion with my insurance agent (who spoke to underwriters i believe) when i first took out insurance.

they assured me after explaining what PI is usually for and a long dissection of the EICR process and product, that PI was not required for the purposes of EICR .... so ive never taken it out. i ensured best i can that they had their advice logged on the system of course.
 04 October 2013 07:10 PM
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alanblaby

Posts: 283
Joined: 09 March 2012

Hmm, that's not the advice I was given (PI not needed for EICR's).
The likelihood of a claim is minimal if you are doing things correctly (the same as for PL Ins. really), but, there is always a chance of a bad day, so, for the extra £90 I pay, it gives peace of mind as well as reassuring customers that I am covered for all eventualities.
 06 October 2013 07:52 PM
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aligarjon

Posts: 2729
Joined: 09 September 2005

NIC do a policy that includes PI. my premium was about £70.00 all in. I don't know if you need to be registered with them or not. I believe It also covers smoke detector failure, which most policies do not.

Gary

-------------------------
Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 06 October 2013 08:05 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 5879
Joined: 04 July 2007

Thanks for that Gary, I am niceic registered and have been trying to find a contact phone number for their insurance service, I've looked on the web site and couldn't find any mention of insurance. I'll phone their main number tomorrow,

Dave.
 06 October 2013 10:03 PM
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Pacific

Posts: 572
Joined: 29 January 2005

Originally posted by: psychicwarrior

Hi Dave



i had a long discussion with my insurance agent (who spoke to underwriters i believe) when i first took out insurance.



they assured me after explaining what PI is usually for and a long dissection of the EICR process and product, that PI was not required for the purposes of EICR .... so ive never taken it out. i ensured best i can that they had their advice logged on the system of course.


Exactly what my broker told me, twice in fact after I queried his position after it was raised on this forum. As a matter of interest has anyone ever had to claim on PI, or know any electrician that has

 07 October 2013 06:47 AM
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normcall

Posts: 8063
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The worrying thing is that if you stop paying the premium (for any reason such as get out of industry or retire or even just change insurers), and a claim is made x years after, you may not be covered as one condition relies on continuing premium payment.

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Norman
 07 October 2013 09:03 AM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7031
Joined: 18 April 2006

"Exactly what my broker told me, twice in fact after I queried his position after it was raised on this forum. As a matter of interest has anyone ever had to claim on PI, or know any electrician that has"

There are quite a few topics regarding PI, an old one below for you Pacific.

Regards

BOD


http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...=y&keyword1=PI%20claim
 07 October 2013 09:17 AM
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Pacific

Posts: 572
Joined: 29 January 2005

Originally posted by: perspicacious

"Exactly what my broker told me, twice in fact after I queried his position after it was raised on this forum. As a matter of interest has anyone ever had to claim on PI, or know any electrician that has"



There are quite a few topics regarding PI, an old one below for you Pacific.



Regards



BOD

I like the story, but PI would not have helped in that case, my argument is that we are "giving advice for a fee" every day by designing circuits no matter how simple, I am modifying a control panel for a client which involves a fair bit of design as I go along, where is the line drawn?





http://www.theiet.org/forums/f...=y&keyword1=PI%20claim


 07 October 2013 01:51 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 5879
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NICEIC insurance services, £78.61!

That's for 2m PL, 75k PI, 100k efficacy cover (something to do with alarms and smoke detectors etc) 25k I/R investigations.
Compared to my previous company with whom i'd been with seven years, £147.06.
Well worth a phone call!

Dave.
 07 October 2013 06:33 PM
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psychicwarrior

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@daveparry

that sounds too good to be true! do they insure anyone or is that a discount you get for being in their club ?

im still not convinced you need PI for EICR - the insurance agent was catagorical about it in any case !
 07 October 2013 06:41 PM
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daveparry1

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He did ask for my niceic registration number so I suppose it might have helped, it would be nice to know that i'm getting some extra benefit from being registered!
Btw, AXA gave a good quote of £67 but that was only for PL. The girl did contact the ins. co. to enquire about PI but they wouldn't quote,

Dave.
 07 October 2013 06:43 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7031
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"where is the line drawn"

Wherever your insurance company dictates by their "small print".....

30 years ago, I used to do overhead lines, private supplies to remote farm buildings stuff. I had an injury confining me to home and out of boredom, read my PLI policy and saw that it excluded aerials. Not an issue I thought as I don't get involved with bits of bent aluminium on roofs but I'd only recently had a chat with a former Electricity Board linesman who'd referred to my work as putting up aerials. Sure enough, on checking with my insurers, their definition of aerial included not only the TV one on the roof but, to my dismay, also overhead lines, as per the old definition. So, all my overhead line work hadn't been insured.

I've had a case where a contractor was doing a nursing home and his PLI excluded hotels and farms. He was adamant that a nursing home wasn't a hotel but on asking his insurers, their definition of hotel included nursing homes. Yet another unhappy bunny......

As to your concerns, my understanding is that asking your broker for PLI as an electrical contractor has the expectation of you carrying out a complete job whereby you design it, construct it and I&T it. If you carry out design work without the follow up construction, your PLI doesn't cover it. Likewise, if you carry out I&T without the prior two parts, your PLI doesn't cover it.

I posted somewhere in the past about declaring all the types of work you do and ask your broker to confirm that you are covered for those activities. PAT, EL testing, FA testing, EICRs are classics where contractors think their PLI covers them but in most cases, falls foul of the "complete job" activity.

Regards

BOD
 07 October 2013 06:55 PM
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daveparry1

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I'd assume in the case you mentioned Bod that they were referring to (or they were assuming) "aerial work", ie work above the ground rather than aerials as such?
Taking photo's from an aircraft is referred to as "aerial work", nothing to do with aerials though!

Dave.
 07 October 2013 07:04 PM
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perspicacious

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"Taking photo's from an aircraft is referred to as "aerial work", nothing to do with aerials though!"

That'd probably fall foul of the typical 3 storey height limitation

Regards

BOD
 07 October 2013 07:09 PM
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daveparry1

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Probably would BOD! Btw, they did ask me if I ever worked above 3 storeys high,

Dave.
 07 October 2013 08:11 PM
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perspicacious

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"Probably would BOD! Btw, they did ask me if I ever worked above 3 storeys high,"

Now would that be including the basement or a lower level that you often find and for even more fun Dave, would that be inside or outside the building?

Off out for a drive as I need to unwind as it has been a difficult day regarding people (I'm not known for being tolerant....)

Regards

BOD
 07 October 2013 08:27 PM
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daveparry1

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Apologies if I've pushed your tolerance limit further then BOD!
 07 October 2013 09:25 PM
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Pacific

Posts: 572
Joined: 29 January 2005

Originally posted by: perspicacious

"where is the line drawn"



Wherever your insurance company dictates by their "small print".....



30 years ago, I used to do overhead lines, private supplies to remote farm buildings stuff. I had an injury confining me to home and out of boredom, read my PLI policy and saw that it excluded aerials. Not an issue I thought as I don't get involved with bits of bent aluminium on roofs but I'd only recently had a chat with a former Electricity Board linesman who'd referred to my work as putting up aerials. Sure enough, on checking with my insurers, their definition of aerial included not only the TV one on the roof but, to my dismay, also overhead lines, as per the old definition. So, all my overhead line work hadn't been insured.



I've had a case where a contractor was doing a nursing home and his PLI excluded hotels and farms. He was adamant that a nursing home wasn't a hotel but on asking his insurers, their definition of hotel included nursing homes. Yet another unhappy bunny......



As to your concerns, my understanding is that asking your broker for PLI as an electrical contractor has the expectation of you carrying out a complete job whereby you design it, construct it and I&T it. If you carry out design work without the follow up construction, your PLI doesn't cover it. Likewise, if you carry out I&T without the prior two parts, your PLI doesn't cover it.



I posted somewhere in the past about declaring all the types of work you do and ask your broker to confirm that you are covered for those activities. PAT, EL testing, FA testing, EICRs are classics where contractors think their PLI covers them but in most cases, falls foul of the "complete job" activity.



Regards



BOD


I will double check my PL, your tale of "aerials" brings to mind my first few jobs as a sole trader, replacing overloads in a fuel depot, you live and learn

 07 October 2013 10:29 PM
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dickllewellyn

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Joined: 19 March 2010

At one stage a few years ago I'd considered dallying into the murky world of PV. Being a sensible (?!) sort of chap I thought I'd check my insurance, and the increased premium for work on roofs was horrendous! It does make you wonder just how many people have the right insurance policies for the work they do, my guess would be very few! I won't go into my insurance enquiries on fire alarms!

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Regards
Richard (Dick)

"Insert words of wisdom and/or witty pun here"
IET » Wiring and the regulations » PI insurance

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