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Topic Title: Customers......
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Created On: 17 February 2013 08:34 PM
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 17 February 2013 08:34 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

How come some people will let themselves be ripped off and when you try to help them out of a bad situation, suddenly become experts in your field?????
I'll try to be brief.
Had a phone call from a householder asking me to connect up a new kitchen.
It had been moved from a small room to a new kitchenette in the living room. The kitchen fitters (oh joy) had wired the sockets in a radial, fed the cooker hood in 1.5mm and run a 6mm to the cooker. All left under the floor, to be reconnected into the old kitchen circuit (s).
So, turned up to connect up and found the following:
There was no 6mm from the board. The old kitchen was on a 20A radial wired in a lollipop, with a taped up connector block under the floor..
Oh, and there was a 2.5mm flex from the cooker switch running to the
back of the cooker space. There were also a couple of other random new cable ends, lurking behind the cooker, that I couldn't trace.
Explained to the customer that the cooker would need it's own circuit and the wiring would need tidying up. Only to be told, that it was all working before, just connect it up, oh and please notify Building Control that it's all OK. I was also told that a special Low Energy oven had been purchased, on the recommendation of the kitchen fitters. It was a 3KW single oven, but apparently that is now a low wattage oven :-O.
Anyway, to cut a long story, marginally less long. I lost a day's money trying to assess the situation, they had an urgent meeting so I had to pull off site at 11.00 and return at 4.00. I've quoted around the 430 mark to remedy this. 350 labour, about 75 materials and test sheets at 1.00 each and 30 bob each (at cost) for the LABC notification and insurance.
I have just received a, it has to be said stroppy, email asking me to justify my quote, as it's a bit high and also to quote for replacing a bathroom fan (230v), that's in a window over the bath, with a cable feeding it running outside, clipped to the exterior wall.
My feeling is, get your trainers on, the hills are that way.
 17 February 2013 08:44 PM
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leckie

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Joined: 21 November 2008

Well Richard, you know what to do, walk away and put it down to experience. Well that would be my take on it.
 17 February 2013 08:56 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 6239
Joined: 04 July 2007

Me too, 100% agree with you Leckie!

Dave.
 17 February 2013 09:10 PM
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mikejumper

Posts: 1746
Joined: 14 December 2006

Originally posted by: Richard64
How come some people will let themselves be ripped off and when you try to help them out of a bad situation, suddenly become experts in your field?????

Because they never want to pay for the job to be done properly.
 17 February 2013 09:32 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

It's a shame, because I really feel for them. But I'm getting so much attitude, when I'm trying to bail them out. But I'm not subsidising other people's bad workmanship.
 17 February 2013 09:59 PM
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stateit

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If you are parting company from them at least tell them in a parting shot the kitchen fitters have messed up the job causing remedial works needing to be done, and that if they do find someone to certify it as-is that they themselves are being ripped off...

-------------------------
S George
http://www.sg-electrical.com
 17 February 2013 10:55 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Originally posted by: stateit

If you are parting company from them at least tell them in a parting shot the kitchen fitters have messed up the job causing remedial works needing to be done, and that if they do find someone to certify it as-is that they themselves are being ripped off...


Hmm. I've pointed this out to them, and been perfectly transparent. But, hey, I'm not certifying a job I'm not happy with.
I do wonder whether people have an attitude, due to previous circumstances, or whether their manner has led to their own difficulties.
No good deed goes unpunished, as they say.
Anyway, it's quite nice in these hills. :-/
 17 February 2013 11:04 PM
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sparkingchip

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The alarm bells should have been ringing in your head from the moment the customer contacted you asking to have someone else's electrical work connected up. I tend to let these people know they are likely to be time wasters as far as I am concerned in the initial conversation, strangely enough though it tends to be a conversation killer!

Andy
 18 February 2013 09:31 AM
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normcall

Posts: 8144
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It's the asking for a quote to replace the bathroom fan that's so nice.
You do know you can do it providing protected by a RCD and something like IP54 (Vent-Axia are the ones).

-------------------------
Norman
 18 February 2013 10:11 AM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Andy. Yes the alarm bells were going off from the beginning. Unfortunately, if someone else has already been paid, then you seem to be expected to subsidise their bad workmanship.
I didn't mention that there was a dual fuse cutout (Presumably feeding the flat upstairs) which was cast iron, and the CU was mounted on it's side. The cables running upstairs also appeared to be chased in outside the safe zones. Oh and there was still 7.029 in use in part of the old kitchen circuit.
Anyway, I emailed them last night and after the reply I got, I won't be returning. I would be curious as to who is going to finish this off
Sometimes that bargepole is a very handy tool.

Norm. The fan wiring appears to go outsde and then comes back in through the window frame.I would have prefered to fit an SELV one but running new cabling would be tricky. Also they have 3 smashed GU10 halogens to be replaced. I tried advising them to go with LED as they wouldn't have been much more expensive and there's a 10 year guarantee. Absolutely not interested,.
It got bto a point, where I think I'd have rather nailed my head to the wall, than start explaining about RCD protection :-(
 18 February 2013 11:16 AM
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ebee

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It`s your job to connect other peoples work.
It`s you job to rectify if needed.
It`s your job to notify & certify.
It`s not your job to charge them for all of this.

Typical customer.
LOL

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 18 February 2013 11:29 AM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Originally posted by: ebee

It`s your job to connect other peoples work.

It`s you job to rectify if needed.

It`s your job to notify & certify.

It`s not your job to charge them for all of this.



Typical customer.

LOL


That's about the strength of it. And rectifying all the bodges that have gone on in the past.
'But it's all worked fine until you came here' :-(
 18 February 2013 11:32 AM
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jcm256

Posts: 1894
Joined: 01 April 2006

Won't this be the normal practice (and topic for discussion) from April.

allowing DIYers and other unregistered installers (firms not registered with a Part P
Competent Person Self-Certification Scheme) to employ a third party qualified
electrician to inspect and test their work as an alternative to using a building control
body.
iii) Notify work in advance to a building control body (usually the local authority),
and have the work inspected and tested by a person (a qualified electrician)
iv) Have the work inspected and tested by a person registered under an
appropriate scheme. A certificate would be issued of "Electrical Conformity"
and no advance notice would need to be made to a BCB, just notification on
completion of the works from the competent person that the works were
satisfactory.

http://www.butlerandyoung.co.u...nsultation-Summary.pdf
 18 February 2013 11:39 AM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Originally posted by: jcm256

Won't this be the normal practice (and topic for discussion) from April.



allowing DIYers and other unregistered installers (firms not registered with a Part P

Competent Person Self-Certification Scheme) to employ a third party qualified

electrician to inspect and test their work as an alternative to using a building control

body.

iii) Notify work in advance to a building control body (usually the local authority),

and have the work inspected and tested by a person (a qualified electrician)

iv) Have the work inspected and tested by a person registered under an

appropriate scheme. A certificate would be issued of "Electrical Conformity"

and no advance notice would need to be made to a BCB, just notification on

completion of the works from the competent person that the works were

satisfactory.



http://www.butlerandyoung.co.u...nsultation-Summary.pdf


Would you be happy signing off someone else's work?
And you would then have to correct any non compliances, which the customer wouldn't want to pay for.
Maybe a register of electricians, wouldn't be a bad idea. :-)
 18 February 2013 04:37 PM
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dg66

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Can you justify your quote? That always makes me laugh, i've had similar experiences with that one.
Customer '' thats expensive,how can you charge that much?''
Me '' well thats how much the materials will cost and thats for the labour''
Customer ''the labour charge is too expensive''
Me '' well its xx amount of hours at £xx per hour''
Customer '' im not paying that much ,im only on £7.00 an hour''
Me '' well get one of your colleagues from the supermarket to do the job for £7.00 per hour then, see ya''

-------------------------
Regards

Dave(not Cockburn)
 18 February 2013 04:51 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1894
Joined: 01 April 2006

No I would not sign off any work did by someone else. The man/woman looking for defects, deviations will find them. (You know the type of person who feels is not doing their job properly unless finds faults and defects).

There is a scheme at present where the building control hires a competent electrician to check the work of DIY complies with the regulations and issue a safety certificate.
The future scheme is different, you will be hired by a fellow electrician you won't get your money until you issue that clear report, you know it will come to blows and ill feeling.

Edited: 18 February 2013 at 05:27 PM by jcm256
 18 February 2013 05:59 PM
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mikejumper

Posts: 1746
Joined: 14 December 2006

Originally posted by: jcm256
The future scheme is different, you will be hired by a fellow electrician you won't get your money until you issue that clear report, you know it will come to blows and ill feeling.

Charge up front for your service like the DNO's do.
No money, no report.
A good incentive to do the job properly and not have to pay for re-inspection.
 18 February 2013 06:04 PM
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ebee

Posts: 5729
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Originally posted by: dg66

Can you justify your quote? That always makes me laugh, i've had similar experiences with that one.

Customer '' thats expensive,how can you charge that much?''

Me '' well thats how much the materials will cost and thats for the labour''

Customer ''the labour charge is too expensive''

Me '' well its xx amount of hours at £xx per hour''

Customer '' im not paying that much ,im only on £7.00 an hour''

Me '' well get one of your colleagues from the supermarket to do the job for £7.00 per hour then, see ya''


Ask them how much their boss charges for their labour to pay them £7 per hour. They would be amazed.

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 18 February 2013 06:18 PM
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dg66

Posts: 1675
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The best bet in these situations is to walk away.I started a job once,good price for a mate.1st fix done and new CU fitted . It was agreed at this point that the balance of material money would be paid,but i then got ''the price is too dear, i will finish it myself'' I ended up about breaking even with the money already recieved.
It was really pleasing a month later when i got the call to come and finish the job because this MATE and his brother inlaw 'wot knows lectrics' couldnt work out how it was wired. I took great satisfaction in telling them i was too busy and wasnt interested. It was even better when i found out it cost more than £600 than my price to get someone else in to finish the job.
Cowboy customers always learn the hard way.

-------------------------
Regards

Dave(not Cockburn)
 18 February 2013 06:59 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Originally posted by: dg66

The best bet in these situations is to walk away.I started a job once,good price for a mate.1st fix done and new CU fitted . It was agreed at this point that the balance of material money would be paid,but i then got ''the price is too dear, i will finish it myself'' I ended up about breaking even with the money already recieved.

It was really pleasing a month later when i got the call to come and finish the job because this MATE and his brother inlaw 'wot knows lectrics' couldnt work out how it was wired. I took great satisfaction in telling them i was too busy and wasnt interested. It was even better when i found out it cost more than £600 than my price to get someone else in to finish the job.

Cowboy customers always learn the hard way.


Jobs for friends.
I had to take an old 'friend' to court a few years ago after an emergency rewire (Just bought a house, but needed it rewiring immediately, because of other builders). Did it at a vastly reduced price, which they tried to renegotiate after the first fix.
And then had the cheek to try to countersue because they had to pay more than my price to get it finished :-/

BTW How good are you with Series 2s? I was pretty good with slimstyles in my youth but I'm trying to rebuild a 1959 model at the moment :-)
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