IET logo
 
IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Electrical installation condition report vs installtion certificate
Topic Summary: Electrical installation condition report vs installtion certificate
Created On: 26 January 2013 03:48 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 26 January 2013 03:48 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



NEELtd

Posts: 9
Joined: 23 September 2012

Hi,

I have been asked by a customer to install a new cooker circuit but at the same time he wants me to certify the house so he can rent it out.

My question is, once iv completed the cooker circuit can i certify the house using a installtion certficate; testing my new work and the rest of the DB giving it a maximum of 5 years.

Or do i need to complete a installation certificate for my work and a condition report for the remaing circuits?
 26 January 2013 04:43 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for sparkiemike.
sparkiemike

Posts: 1543
Joined: 24 January 2008

For the new circuit you need to issue an installation certificate and notify to comply with part P if you are in england or wales. This basically says you have completed the works, tested it and it complies with the wiring regs and building regs.

The condition report (ECIR) is a different piece of work altogether.
 26 January 2013 06:43 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



NEELtd

Posts: 9
Joined: 23 September 2012

okay seems daft to issue to seperate certs, What happens when i change a db and issue an electrical installation certificate will that qualify as the certificate he needs to say his house is electrical safe to rent?
 26 January 2013 07:04 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for sparkiemike.
sparkiemike

Posts: 1543
Joined: 24 January 2008

It is not daft, these are two separate pieces of work.
The installation certificate says the work YOU did complies with wiring regs.
Any work you do should have the appropriate installation certificate, and in this case the certificate should ONLY cover the work you have carried out.

The main purpose of the ECIR is to detect so far as is reasonably practicable, and to report on, any factors impairing or likely to impair the safety of an electrical installation, which is not the same as saying the work you have carried out complies with wiring regs and building regs.
 26 January 2013 08:34 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



NEELtd

Posts: 9
Joined: 23 September 2012

i understand they are completley different certs and i know what each of them are for iv just been told by a couple of people different ways to issue them.

can i rephase the question sparkiemike?

if i was the customer and asked you to change my db and i would like a certificate not only certify your work but to certify the safety of my the electrical installation. Would you give me an EIC to certify your DB ONLY then a EICR as well to say the condition of the installation is a satifactory standard?

You have to test the whole db anyway because you have altered all the circuits and you can even do a visual inspection when your at the end of line as part of a sample.

thanks for your response sparkie mike.
 26 January 2013 08:46 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



daveparry1

Posts: 6200
Joined: 04 July 2007

For the c/unit change an EIC needs to be issued and part P notification done. As said earlier the EICR is a separate issue so needs to be done on the appropriate report form. Note that an EICR is not a certificate, it's a report of the condition of the installation,

Dave.
 26 January 2013 09:26 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



NEELtd

Posts: 9
Joined: 23 September 2012

okay, so i have to produce both the EIC and EICR.

Last question.... for me to write on the board and reccomend the next inspection date i need to produce a EICR? right?
 26 January 2013 09:38 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



daveparry1

Posts: 6200
Joined: 04 July 2007

Yes, EIC and EICR.
The EIC asks the question "it is recommended this installation should be re-tested in not more than _____ years", so you don't have to do an EICR to put a sticker on the board. I usualy state 5 years for a c/unit change and 10 years for a re-wire,

Dave.
 26 January 2013 09:46 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



NEELtd

Posts: 9
Joined: 23 September 2012

so where would the landlord stand if i produced him with a EIC for my consumer unit change and reccomended the next inspection 5 years because its a rented property??

obviously the landlord has to make sure his house is electrically fit for use and this is where these landlord certificates came about but actually these dont technically exist? and a EICR is just one way of providing proof of satisfactory condition.

i think im just trying to talk myself out of filling in double the paper work ha

Edited: 26 January 2013 at 10:03 PM by NEELtd
 26 January 2013 09:54 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



daveparry1

Posts: 6200
Joined: 04 July 2007

It depends on who's asking him for the EICR. There is no legal requirement to have an EICR done, (not like gas where a safety certificte is required) If he's renting through an agent it might be them that is requesting it. I do some work for a chap that has several flats and houses that he rents out through the local council, they ask for a condition report but are quite happy with the "Visual Condition Report" that I do for him.
 26 January 2013 10:10 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



NEELtd

Posts: 9
Joined: 23 September 2012

iv just basically updated my message saying the same thing.

Exact same principal really, landlord has been asked by local council to make sure his houses are in adequate condition. iv basically went in and done a visual inspection on all the houses and said you need to make the following changes etc

so i was wondering if they would accept an EIC as evidence?
 26 January 2013 10:32 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



daveparry1

Posts: 6200
Joined: 04 July 2007

I use the niceic visual report forms which look quite good. I try to avoid doing eicr's, they are such a pain to do! On the odd occasions that I do them, (usualy for regular customers who insist they don't want anyone else!) I use the IET forms downloadable from this site, they are very much simpler than the niceic ones which I bought when the 17th ammendments came into force, so many pages of rubbish! I got haf way through the first one and gave it up and went back to the IET ones.
It would be worth you having a look at those IET EICR forms, very easy to use and you'll have most of the information you need from your EIC anyway,

Dave.

Edited: 26 January 2013 at 10:38 PM by daveparry1
 26 January 2013 11:05 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for sparkiemike.
sparkiemike

Posts: 1543
Joined: 24 January 2008

When I do a CU upgrade the main issues that I am concerned about are; earthing and bonding arrangements, will disconnection times be met, will the RCDs stay on (i.e. insulation resistance), over-current and polarity. I am not particularly worried about for example are the light fittings in the bathroom IPX4 or the fact the there may be an inadequate number of sockets? I am not going to go around taking sockets covers off to inspect behind them. I will mention any issues the come up to the client in the interest of safety and dare I say it generating more income.

However an ECIR will mention all observed departures that are likely impair the safety of an electrical installation and the client will be free to decide how they deal with any departures.

Clearly some of the work (testing) you do for the consumer unit change can be reused for the ECIR and you can use that to your commercial advantage, but you still need to issue an installation certificate (and notify) for any work you have done, and if requested issue a ECIR that may also include any additional aspects of electrical installation not covered during your testing of for the consumer unit change.
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.