Providing all circumstances permit re cable size & MCB etc, is a change of bathroom shower to one of an alternative load a notifiable job?
Say a 8.5KW shower replaced with a 9.6KW unit for example.

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik

No new circuits, so not notifiable imo, obviously you'll do the relevant tests.

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Those who make no mistakes do very little work!!......

That`s what I woulda said, however if a larger MCB (the existing is 32A) and an RCD if one not present then I think that would qualify as a new circuit therefore notifiable perhaps

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik

Work in a bathroom so i say yes

Unbelieveable this train has got free Wi-Fi so I didnt have to get my dongle out in public.

Be wary of the definition 'like for like'.

In building regulation terms the definition means; "replacement with a comparable component or assembly", so you could get away with a MWC with no problem.

regards

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"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
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"Oh! The drama of it all."
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"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
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I think both Rulland and Ebee are quite correct for differing situations of the job.

It isnt the change of appliance as long as the circuit takes the load.If you replace the shower and all circuit is ok to take the new load then it is a like for like and MWC non notify.

But,as Ebee states, a new rated MCB or RCD is fitted to the circuit then the characteristics of the circuit are changed so theoretically it is notifyable in my opinion.
An RCD should be encouraged nowadays anyway
Regards
Antric.

Not neccessarily because it could be classed as a like for like replace no matter what the location and circuit characteristics are unchanged,
Regards
Antric

And it was designed to be so simple.................it's got more grey areas than grey piece of paper copied with greyscale copier!.

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Those who make no mistakes do very little work!!......

The buildings Regulations allow for an item of equipment to be replaced, ther is no requirement for the item to be 'like for like'.
I would suggest you look at the additional notes on page 8 of the Approved Document:
"a. Notifiable jobs include new circuits back to the consumer unit, and extensions to circuits in kitchens and special locations (bathrooms, etc) and asociated with special installations (garden lighting and power installations, etc)."
"b. Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally not notifiable, even if carried out in a kitchen or special location or associated with a special installation."
I do not see that changing a CPD or a shower is anything other than an alteration.
Certainly not a new circuit, even if the rating of the CPD is changed.

Agreed Spin-so why, if its all cut and dried, are there still so many questions from everyone and their dog, as to what can and cannot be done as far as part 'pi55take' is concerned?, how many years has this now been implemented and most are none the wiser tbh!.

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Those who make no mistakes do very little work!!......

It`s good to get an opinion of a gamekeeper as well as the poachers, so thanks Rock and thanks too to everyone else so far.

I didn`t think "Like for like" was actually in the approved doc but more like perhaps implied and so has become folklore.

It is I think the altering of the characteristics.
So changing shower load maybe not a problem.
If the cable was damaged therefore changed for same rating then still Ok.
(if that damaged cable was undersize and you did the right thing and put the correct larger in then it could be argued by the pedantic I suppose) .

But changing MCB then I think strictly speaking makes it notifiable.

Reason for my question,
a friend popped in for advice, his 8.5KW shower has broken down, he got his plumber to check it out and intends to buy a replacement.
He`s seen one on offer its 9.6KW.
His plumber advised him to seek my advice first before he just changes it and the MCB might need changing . (sensible plumber).
He was clutching a Wylex B32.

I have arranged to call on him tomorrow to take a peek but did point out that the B32 was undersize anyway although with a 8.5 shower it would not show up as an issue to him when using it. But a shower change would need a MCB change anyway.

I got to thinking about notification and would it be required by me rather than saying yes your plumber can fit another 8.5 or as he wants a 9.6 one.

I don`t intend to nick the plumbers job in order to notify but I intend to warn him of the possible consequences once I`ve checked his existing circuit FOC .

If he was my paying customer rather than just a friend asking for free advice I`d have no problem with this

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik

I was contacted by a local who had replaced a shower cord switch themselves three times because 'it had failed' yet again, checked, found 10.5kw shower on 6.00mm and a 50a mcb-so either electrician or plumber, or both didn't know what they were doing-the only reason I was contacted was that the tails into the shower switch were now to short to easily connect because of cutting back of the damaged/melted cable from previous repairs.
Unfortunately joe public think a shower is a shower, 1mm hardwired flex is ok from 32a rfc socket to an outside light.
My gut feeling is nothing has particularly changed, especially during these lean times, there will always be short cuts, and cost cutting at the expense of safety.

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Those who make no mistakes do very little work!!......

Can't see anything in the document that indicates replacing or changing an MCB is notifiable.

The easiest method by far is to just totally ignore part P ,i find.

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Regards

Dave(not Cockburn)

Well that`s like saying you are ignoring the speed limit on a public highway.

What I`m trying to do is to ascertain what is actually written and what we think was actually intended by those who wrote it - the two things are not always the same.

Clearly new circuits are notifiable and new points in certain locations are too.

Clearly changing "like for like" is not.

However, which change or group of changes, to a circuit are likely to make it more than just a renewal and more akin to a new circuit.

This one is not strictly in either camp in its entirety but has elements of both if the shower is not changed for another 8.5 one and the (strictly wrong) 32A MCB is not left in situu.

If I was doing the job then I could notify it anyway so no problem, but I`m only going to take a peek (OK obviously I intend whilst I`m there I`ll check Zs, R1 +R2 & IR as well as presence of RCD and/or supp bonding, cable size & cable run as far as practicable along with pull switch rating of course). Then I`ll advise him of the practicalities and possible pitfalls of his plumber changing it either for a straight swop or one of a higher rating

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik

Edited: 18 August 2012 at 11:59 AM by ebee

Well that`s like saying you are ignoring the speed limit on a public highway.
And most people do.

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Regards

Dave(not Cockburn)

If you are registered with a scheme Ebee just notify it anyway, for the sake of three quid it's not worth the worry! Better to notify something unnecessarily than not to notify something that should be,

Dave.

I can hardly notify something I haven`t done.
£3 ? no £ 1.50 + Vat

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik

£1.50 plus the 6 year warranty, another £1.50, niceic, (the only one worth mentioning!)

Dave.

£1.50 Elecsa plus optional warranty doc left with customer

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik