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Topic Title: CEng application, interview and process
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Created On: 15 December 2013 08:41 AM
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 15 December 2013 08:41 AM
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roykstones

Posts: 11
Joined: 26 August 2009

I want to share my experience of the process of gaining my CEng status and in particular encourage others who, like myself, have not followed the traditional route with a degree/masters etc. For years I had incorrectly thought that without such academic qualifications that professional registration wasn't possible. Even on this forum there can be conflicting opinion. I started the process by applying for membership in April 13 and before being granted MIET I was requested to provide an expanded CV. My understanding of that request was that the IET needed to establish that my technical knowledge was on a par with that of a graduate. Following my award of MIET, May 13, I received a letter suggesting that I may be ready to apply for professional registration. I applied for CEng in July and was invited to attend my PRI in Nov and was awarded CEng Dec 13.
My advice to others is not to be put off pursuing professional registration because you have not followed the traditional path. Take advice directly from the various IET representatives, including obtaining a PRA, take your time and most importantly make sure that your application is mapped to the UK-SPEC competencies because this is what you are scored against and not the university education and degree that you may have.
I am delighted to have been awarded CEng and have now enquired about voluntary roles within the IET so that I can hopefully give something back and encourage others to benefit from membership and CPD.

Roy K Stones CEng MIET
 15 December 2013 09:03 AM
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DavidParr

Posts: 242
Joined: 19 April 2002

Congratulations Roy and well done!

I see many candidates in a similar position to yourself. Despite the message going out that a degree isn't a mandatory requirement, there are still many people holding back from applying for registration because they don't have this "exemplifying qualification". Given your experience and your personal "journey" through the process, in my opinion, you would have a good backgroung for PRA work in a voluntary role. I suggest you conract the Volunteer Support Unit and see what they have to say. (you'll find it quite hard work but very enjoyable).

Best Regards,

-------------------------
David Parr BSc.CEng MIET
PRA
 16 December 2013 11:23 AM
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Parsley

Posts: 1040
Joined: 04 November 2004

Congratulations Roy

You sound perfect for IET mentoring.

http://www.theiet.org/membership/career/mentoring/

Regards
 16 December 2013 04:16 PM
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roybowdler

Posts: 276
Joined: 25 July 2008

Congratulations on your success!

For the benefit of others who may be reading, especially those who like to emphasise academic qualifications , a minor clarification. The UK-SPEC standard describes competences and also knowledge benchmarks, as represented by exemplifying qualifications. The IET will only approve professional registration for members who can demonstrate both suitable underpinning knowledge and a minimum standard of achievement in each competence area.

A member with relevant accredited qualifications will normally be presumed to have sufficient fundamental underpinning knowledge, but may not have sufficient evidence of professional achievement. A less-qualified member demonstrating significant career achievement, typically over many years, has to convince a number of IET assessors, through several separate stages of review, including an interview, that they have also developed knowledge at the benchmark standard.

The review carried out as part of becoming a member is not part of the registration assessment process regulated by Engineering Council, as the requirements are different. For example MIET requirements reflect the equal value given to both IEng & CEng registered members by the institution and many Technician members also prefer to use MIET if they meet the requirements, rather than the more distinctive TMIET.

Some professional bodies emphasise "meeting the academic requirement" as a prerequisite , others may be unable or unwilling to assess applicants without accredited qualifications. The IET takes a "holistic approach" in assessing professional competence. However, I should highlight that the IET's resource of volunteer professional assessors are not equally spread across different engineering domains. Therefore, we are careful not to overstep our own competence. We have had to disappoint a few members by recommending that they use another Engineering Council licensed body for professional registration assessment. For example civil, structural and chemical engineering each have institutions more experienced in their own specialist fields than us. There are also a number of other niche areas in which the IET would be very cautious, should there be any risk of us falling below our own demanding standards of assessment.

-------------------------
Roy Bowdler IEng FIET FCIPD
IET Registration & Standards
 16 December 2013 05:51 PM
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roykstones

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Thank you Roy for your congratulations and your detailed clarifications. My post was merely to encourage others who may not have an " exemplifying qualification" but not to imply that the registration process and the standard of requirements has been relaxed in any way. Perhaps I had naively presumed that everyone considering applying for PR would be fully aware of the need to fulfil and demonstrate their unpinning knowledge and perhaps also I should have mentioned that my relevant experience and evidence of CPD exceeds 30 yrs.

Best Regards

Roy K Stones CEng MIET
 17 December 2013 12:47 PM
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martind485

Posts: 2
Joined: 25 July 2008

Congratulations Roy. This is exactly the route that I am intending on taking after considering following a Masters route. However, with already IEng accredited and 15+ years experience in a technical / engineering background, I feel the unconventional route is the most appropriate.

Regards

Martin Davey IEng MIET
 21 December 2013 02:30 PM
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joshuababbs

Posts: 3
Joined: 10 October 2013

Congratulations roy, This might seem like a silly question but...Is there a possibility of being accredited without industry experience?
 22 December 2013 12:52 PM
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roykstones

Posts: 11
Joined: 26 August 2009

Hi Joshua, I am not an authority on alternative routes to PR but I would strongly suggest that you review the application requirements and if you feel that you are able to demonstrate the technical knowledge and competencies then you should apply and obtain a PRA for guidance.

Regards
Roy K Stones CEng MIET
 30 December 2013 06:44 PM
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alamatec

Posts: 73
Joined: 04 January 2007

Thanks for posting this Roy and congratulations.

I am in a similar position, 50+ years old and managing a large EC&I design team for a multinational EPC contractor. I started a 4 year apprenticeship when I was 16 and completed a HNC many years ago. I've been employed at lead/principal design level for the last 15 years.

I've also quite recently started a post graduate course for CPD reasons which if I see it through it would get me a MSc. However I've analysed the course and 4 of the modules are of real value with the rest being of only very limited use. As I'm funding this myself at over £1000 a module I'm keen to get value for money so I may complete the 4 best value modules (2 more to go) then try for Ceng.
 05 January 2014 07:48 AM
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trevinchui

Posts: 1
Joined: 10 October 2010

Hi, Roy. Though I have sent you a private message about my question, I still try to draw out some points here in case other fellowship may assist.

I am going to have the interview two weeks after and I finalized my powerpoint. I found it quite difficult to draw out the points that I would like to present in only 5 slides. The org chart, the project overview, the highlighted projects for discussion, my role and responsibility in the company throughout these 6 years, etc. are important for me to show the interviewers. However, I can't squeeze all the charts and information in 5 slides so I tried to trim down and make it simple for trading off. This may downgrade the quality of the presentation and I really would like to ask if the org chart and other drawings, photos and graphs would be treated as supplement and not accounted in those 5 slides.

I think the powerpoint is only the tools for presentation but that's sometimes really a guideline for both the candidates and the interviewers to follow the flow. I would like to make it better before the interview and show the interviewers as much as I can on my work experience. That's all of my engineering milestones and I hope the assessor would also see what I have contributed. Thanks.
 05 January 2014 08:51 AM
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roykstones

Posts: 11
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Hi trevinchui, The presentation element is only fifteen minutes and the organisational chart, roles and responsibilities is contained elsewhere within the application and therefore there is no need to duplicate this in your presentation. Five slides equates to 3 mins per slide and I understand that you can supplement with photos and drawings. However you only have fifteen minutes for this element of the interview so you will need to think about how best to utilise the time. See the short video on the IET website which gives guidance of what to expect at the interview. The presentation is about you demonstrating your competencies, in particular A & B, and not fancy Powerpoint graphics, and nice pictures & diagrams. So think about say one or maybe two projects that you have worked on that can best demonstrate your competencies. Give a brief overview, refer to what you did in a way to demonstrate your competence, think about how YOU have contributed or achieved cost savings, innovative solutions, improved/shortened programme, sustainability etc. The interviewers will then tease out of you what is needed during the remainder of the interview to assess and score you against the competencies. As you have quite rightly stated Powerpoint is a tool and you will not be assessed against the whizz bang features of Powerpoint so concentrate on the content of what is required and it should then flow in a natural and understandable way for all. Good luck!
Best Regards
Roy K Stones CEng MIET

Edited: 05 January 2014 at 09:04 AM by roykstones
 07 January 2014 07:53 AM
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AndyTaylor

Posts: 164
Joined: 24 November 2002

Roy, do you have a link to that short video?

-------------------------
Andy Taylor CEng MIET
 07 January 2014 08:58 AM
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roykstones

Posts: 11
Joined: 26 August 2009

Hi Andy, Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqxysv4rZoM

Regards
Roy K Stones CEng MIET
 23 January 2014 11:25 AM
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faramog

Posts: 447
Joined: 25 November 2002

The presentation is not meant to be onerous, but rather an opportunity for the candidate to speak about something they did that was significant in their career development and use that to take ownership of the whole PRI process. As an interviewer:

DON'T put org charts up and speak about your company and what it does
DON'T endlessly waffle about company products
DON'T create seemingly hundreds of slides
DON'T pack the slides with dense information

DO think about what we are asking
DO think about how what you present can guide the interview process
Do think 'bounded problem'
DO think in terms of: SPECIFIC problem ..... what YOU did ..... what was the OUTCOME ...... what did YOU learn

When I give advice to candidates, I use the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid !) .. its about a technical challenge you faced that demonstrates your engineering competence....
- for example: [and this is my own personal view and not the IET's... but works !!]
slide 1 - BRIEF intro to company/division/products [gives us a context] 1-2 mins
slide 2 - What is the problem you faced.. think context, significance, why it was challenging to you [gives us insight into your thoughts as to the significance of the issue] - 2-3 mins
slide 3,4 - what did you do ? ... analysis.. possible solutions... recommendations [tells us what you did and how you faced the challenges] - 7- 10 mins
slide 5 - outcome ... what happened... did you make a recommendation ? .. was it accepted/rejected...(and rejected is also good) [tells us what happened and how you made a difference] - 1-2 mins
slide 6 - What did you learn .... how did you develop [tells us what you thought you learned]- 1-2 mins

..... so 12-19 mins ..... yes the guide is a 15 min presentation.. BUT .. if YOU take charge then it tents to centre the whole review. 15 Mins gives us the chance to terminate the presentation when there is no value to our review

It's not rocket science.... keep it bounded, keep it simple, keep it clear and be confident - it should be about something you know intimately that you are proud of.. so why would you not be confident ?

-------------------------
Eur Ing Graham Prebble CEng MIEE
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