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Topic Title: Application process unclear
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Created On: 25 August 2013 07:55 PM
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 25 August 2013 07:55 PM
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neilmcd84

Posts: 56
Joined: 02 June 2003

I need some advice about the process of applying for CEng. I went to one of the advice evenings about two years ago, and I have recently read extensively on this website but I am still a bit unclear.

My issue is around the assessment of the 16 competencies, and in particular the supporting evidence. Anyone using Career Manager will be familiar with the table of self assessment for the 16 competencies and the text boxes used to record comments for each. I am struggling to work out where this comes into use during the application process. My understanding is that this is not included in the application that starts things off - which seems to be more based around an extended CV / career history. I also watched the video about the interview and it doesn't really seem to come in there either - with the discussion being much higher level, around the 5 wider areas rather than 16 individual competencies.

The only conclusion I can reach is that the detailed assessment of the evidence of my ability in each of the 16 areas is for me and my mentor (and maybe a PRA?) only, to make sure I am ready before I submit my application.

Am I missing something here?
 27 August 2013 12:11 PM
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katybain

Posts: 28
Joined: 09 January 2007

Neil,

The competence assessment in Career Manager v3 does not formulate part of your initial application and is primarily for members to self-assess their competence in each area along with a mentor or line-manager if they have someone supporting them.

The competence assessment section of Career Manager allows you to plan your development as you work toward registration to help you to ensure that you have experience in each of the competence areas.

When preparing your application you should focus on your career history/employment details and your personal contributions in these areas with particular focus on the most recent roles. This content is best described using first person active verbs like 'I designed', 'I analysed' etc. The wording should make clear particular tasks, duties and responsibilities that underpin your competence development.

If, after making an initial assessment of your professional registration application, the assessment team require further evidence then they will request this. Those who have undertaken structured initial professional development will have this information available if they have undertaken a competence assessment.

-------------------------
Kathryn Bain
IPD & Mentoring, Professional Development Dept
The Institution of Engineering and Technology

Edited: 27 August 2013 at 12:49 PM by katybain
 28 August 2013 05:54 PM
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neilmcd84

Posts: 56
Joined: 02 June 2003

Thanks, that helps. When completing the application I am finding it very tempting to turn my career history into 16 blocks, making sure I cover all the 16 competences. However I don't imagine this is what you are looking for. How are your assessors able to decide whether I have met 16 different criteria from an overview of my career history at the application stage? Also during the interview how can I be scored on 16 different areas when the questions don't seem to go into enough depth in each area - as I described above they seem to focus on the 5 higher level areas rather than the 16 competences. I hope these questions make sense!
 28 August 2013 09:40 PM
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davidwalker2

Posts: 189
Joined: 29 April 2009

Neil,

I am an assessor and an interviewer, so I will try to explain the process we go through. We are all volunteers and have had training and have a lot of experience in what we do. Your assessors will be chosen from someone familiar with your industry and sector, so they are likely to be familiar with what you do.

The career history section tells us about the work you have done, your personal responsibilities, and how they fit into the 16 competences that we need to assess. Fill it in as asked, detailing the various roles/jobs that you have done, starting at the earliest relevant date and succinctly outlining what you did, how you went about it, what you were responsible for, having at the back of your mind the 16 competences and how they fit in with what you did. As Kathryn says, use terms like "I was responsible for" and "I designed" and avoid "I was involved with" or "we carried out". Work through to your current job. This way we can see how your career has progressed and how you have built on your experience to develop it. (This is the opposite of a CV, which is normally a sales document where the reader is most interested in your most recent experience). We will work out if you have covered everything using our training and experience. As Kathryn says above, if we need more information we will ask about the specific competence(s) we need.

The interviewers will again be from your industry and will be familiar with your type of work. The interview is a professional but friendly occasion. They will help you make your best case for registration, by going through your career, asking specific questions that enable them to judge whether you have the required competence. It is not like an exam with specific questions needing specific answers, it is a holistic assessment. We may have been asked to explore particular competences in more detail by the previous assessment process, so it might appear that all the areas are not covered equally. Again, we have had training and experience to be able to judge the competence without having to ask 16 specific questions. Always bear in mind that we are not trying to catch you out but to help you.

I hope this helps, but it is in your interest to get the advice of a PRA, they will help you get the best from your application. The staff at the IET will help you get one in your area.

Good luck

David
 29 August 2013 05:48 PM
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neilmcd84

Posts: 56
Joined: 02 June 2003

Thanks very much for your reply David, I think I now understand, and it certainly makes the process seem a bit less daunting. I had hoped to see a registration adviser next week but the session is full - a sign of the success of the IET as encouraging people to go for CEng I suppose.
 28 October 2013 12:48 PM
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ldunsby

Posts: 6
Joined: 14 September 2010

I've just found thins thread after getting pretty confused by career manager. It's a real shame that this is not made clear on the system. I have spent days completing my competency assessment as if it were the application form because I thought it was part of the application. If I've understood correctly, now I have to find a way to transfer the relevant information from each job into the job section.

To be clear, do I need to put some prose that supports the competencies into Career Manager -> My Account -> Employment -> Responsibilities?

If anyone from IET is reading this, Career Manager is really difficult to navigate; it's not at all clear how it uses the information to compile your CEng application and there don't seem to be any clear instructions. A single page step-by-step guide would be very useful.
 28 October 2013 02:04 PM
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katybain

Posts: 28
Joined: 09 January 2007

Thank you for your post and feedback on the Career Manager system.

I am sorry that you have found the process within Career Manager confusing.

You are correct that the application for professional registration within Career Manager requires an initial assessment which is based on your employment experience which is drawn from your My Details section. All of the mandatory elements for professional registration are listed in the registration checklist.

The professional registration assessment helps those working toward professional registration to understand the required competence and commitment required for their chosen registration category. It does not form part of the completed application as this is not required by the registration team for initial application but can help you if subsequent further examples of competence are required either as part of the application process or at interview.

If you have any further queries or feedback then please don't hesitate to contact the Professional Development team.

Kathryn Bain
IPD & Mentoring Service.

-------------------------
Kathryn Bain
IPD & Mentoring, Professional Development Dept
The Institution of Engineering and Technology
 29 October 2013 10:37 AM
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faramog

Posts: 444
Joined: 25 November 2002

In simple terms, If you have the required education level (Masters for CEng) and some work experience (3/4 years really as a min), AND you have some some levels of responsibility (manage some resource, your own time/work etc), then broadly speaking an application is very little more than a CV with a little more tailoring to explicitly point out support of UK spec competencies.

If this is not the case, then ask a PRA to look over your CV, discuss your career with you and give some advice. Career manager has its place and is helpful in garnering thought, but time and again, candidates try to compartmentalise their work ion one of the 16 boxes .. its just not that complicated.

Get some PRA help and it should clear itself in no time

-------------------------
Eur Ing Graham Prebble CEng MIEE
 29 October 2013 03:49 PM
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ldunsby

Posts: 6
Joined: 14 September 2010

Graham,

Thank you again for your response. I have contacted a PRA since posting my query so hopefully this will be resolved easily. I am confident that I meet the requirements so it is just a matter of formatting the information in the most appropriate way.

Kind regards,

Louise
 11 March 2014 02:49 PM
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neilmcd84

Posts: 56
Joined: 02 June 2003

This just gets better and better. I have tried filling in the form, and it turns out there is a limit of 5000 characters for each section. I can just get away with this because my experience is spread over a couple of recent jobs. However I can imagine others really struggling to fit everything in if they have been in the same employment for the whole of their development period.
On top of that, the text needs to be entered into a tiny window that takes up only around 10% of the screen. there is no way to see or edit the body of the text, check paragraphs, layout etc without doing a print preview.
I really think the system needs a revamp to bring in into the 21st century.
 11 March 2014 05:24 PM
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katybain

Posts: 28
Joined: 09 January 2007

Thank you for your feedback regarding Career Manager, the character limit allows members to focus their detail on personal contributions and should provide sufficient space for them to provide detail. For anyone that has had only one role, they can break this down into different projects or placements if this is preferable in order to show how they have progressed within one role.

Following feedback from members who had completed their initial professional development through Career Manager and had a completed assessment. You are now able to upload a verified copy of your Assessment Summary Report from a Professional Registration Summary as long as this has been signed off by one of supporters as a supporting document.

Your competence assessment will only be used as additional evidence if there is anything that is unclear from your employment experience or if examples are needed of specific competence statements. If you do not have sufficient details in your employment experience then your application may still be returned to you to provide further details, so it is important to follow the guidance notes in Career Manager.

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us at: careermanager@theiet.org

-------------------------
Kathryn Bain
IPD & Mentoring, Professional Development Dept
The Institution of Engineering and Technology
 11 March 2014 08:24 PM
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neilmcd84

Posts: 56
Joined: 02 June 2003

Thanks for your reply. It is helpful to know that the 5000 character limit is deliberate - and I suppose it will now provide some guidance on the level of detail you are looking for.

I attended one of the professional registration evenings tonight, and unfortunately I have come away a bit unclear about a few things again!

1. Referring to competences in the application form. This forum suggests that I should fill in my form with the competences only at the back of my mind. However the presentation tonight suggested that I should make specific reference - eg by adding them in brackets at the end of each paragraph.

2. The 5000 character limit again - the presentation suggested downloading a copy of the form rather than filling it in through Career Manager to allow more than 5000 characters to be entered.

I know these might seem like fairly trivial issues in the grand scheme of things, but I would rather be worrying about the content of my application - rather than whether the IET head office and IET local branch and local interviewers are both operating to the same guidelines!
 12 March 2014 12:10 PM
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katybain

Posts: 28
Joined: 09 January 2007

Adding the competences in brackets at the end of each paragraph in your experience section makes it easier for assessors to see that you have considered UK-SPEC when completing your application but is not required when completing the application form and is up to individual candidates whether they wish to include this.

When completing any application for professional registration it should be completed in sufficient detail to demonstrate the competences but should not be overly long and should focus on the candidate's personal responsibilities rather than a generic job description or description of the project undertaken.

The guidance for how to complete this section is the same whether you use a Career Manager application or whether you apply using a paper form.

-------------------------
Kathryn Bain
IPD & Mentoring, Professional Development Dept
The Institution of Engineering and Technology
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