IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: City and Guilds MCGI
Topic Summary:
Created On: 06 May 2013 05:05 PM
Status: Read Only
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
1 2 3 Next Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 06 May 2013 05:05 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Aitken1953

Posts: 140
Joined: 25 June 2006

Being registered as a C Eng, does anyone know if there is any benefit in registering with City and Guilds for MCGI

I did the Technical Report route to C Eng
 10 May 2013 12:08 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for MosheW.
MosheW

Posts: 192
Joined: 14 April 2013

I say definitely Yes.

In the competitive job market some one with MEng can beat you when competing for your next job.
If you don't have a formal degree then GCGI is equated to BEng and MCGI in Engineering is equated to MEng.

Not only MCGI is equivalent to MEng degree and City and Guilds has Royal Charter (Highest Recognition) but as of 2012 the Professional Recognition Awards of City and Guilds are actually accredited and registered on the Qualifications Framework.

The Membership in Engineering (MCGI)(NQF at Level 7) is a strategic Management/Chartered professional level and a Post Graduate Diploma, mapped to a British Master's degree, awarded by the City & Guilds of London Institute.

The Register of Regulated Qualifications contains details of Recognised Awarding Organisations and Regulated Qualifications in England (Ofqual), Wales (Welsh Government) and Northern Ireland (Ofqual for vocational qualifications and CCEA Accreditation for all other qualifications).

MCGI registration:

">http://register.ofqual...uk/...../600_6109_1


I list my city and guilds GCGI award on my resume and I use next to it letters BEng .

In USA MCGI officially evaluated by NACES member agencies(the only agencies recognized by universities , government and employers) as equivalent to a Masters Degree in Engineering from a US Regionally Accredited University.

The City and Guilds of London Institute (City & Guilds) is a leading United Kingdom education organisation. City & Guilds offers more than 500 qualifications over the whole range of industry sectors through 8500 colleges and training providers in 81 countries worldwide.
Two million people every year start City & Guilds qualifications, which span all levels from basic skills to the highest standards of professional achievement (Honours(BA, BSc), Master and Doctorate levels equivalent).

Edited: 10 May 2013 at 12:23 AM by MosheW
 11 May 2013 08:56 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



SAVIO

Posts: 343
Joined: 07 May 2002

But, I feel that CGI is a vocational qualification whereas CEng MIET is a professional qualification. BEng and MEng are academic qualifications.
You paid once for BEng, MEng and MCGI.
You need to pay every year for CEng MIET.
Of course you paid a lot cheaper for MCGI than BEng/MEng.
 11 May 2013 09:17 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Aitken1953

Posts: 140
Joined: 25 June 2006

Is it correct to use B Eng on your resume for GCGI and M Eng for MCGI ?
 11 May 2013 09:37 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



SAVIO

Posts: 343
Joined: 07 May 2002

BEng = GCGI. MEng = MCGI.
But, one is academic qualification and the other which I think is vocational qualification.
If you got both BEng and GCGI or MEng and MCGI, then you can write all of them in your CV.
However, if you only got a BEng, you cannot write both BEng and GCGI in your CV.
 11 May 2013 01:18 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Aitken1953

Posts: 140
Joined: 25 June 2006

The question is: if I am MCGI can I put M Eng on my CV ?
 11 May 2013 03:45 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for MosheW.
MosheW

Posts: 192
Joined: 14 April 2013

It is incorrect to use it in any deceptive way. So I never state that it is a BEng.

It is correct to list it as equivalent or equated because it is under the Royal Charter of City and Guilds.
You can even provide a url to city and guilds statement.

Diploma, mapped to a British Master's degree

http://www.cityandguilds.com/C...9106-membership


The reality is that good job candidates are ignored and their resumes never seen by hiring managers because the resume may not have the right words on it.

Especially if it is scanned by a software application before it makes to the requiter or manager.

I list on my resume GCGI and provide words next to it that it is mapped on level of a British Hon degree (BEng)

As I mentioned in earlier post the NACES member leading agency( is what NARIC UK is.)
They officially evaluate GCGI as equivalent to BEng degree.

So it is wrong to state that it is a degree ( its not a degree) but it is not wrong to state the truth that it is equivalent, equated, on the level of etc.

It is better to have the words on your resume so at least there is a better chance that hiring manager will see your resume.

And yes it is better to have that recognition under the Royal Charter and the Ofqual. It is equivalent to British Masters Degree in Engineering and City and Guilds is respected awarding body that one can be proud of.
 11 May 2013 03:56 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for MosheW.
MosheW

Posts: 192
Joined: 14 April 2013

Originally posted by: Aitken1953

The question is: if I am MCGI can I put M Eng on my CV ?


You can state that you are CEng MIET

For example you list on your resume

City and Guilds - 2013
MCGI - a Professional Recognition Diploma / Senior Award
Equated to UK MEng degree. recognized under Royal Charter and Ofqual.

There are individuals who used MCGI to enter a Doctoral programs or GCGI to enter Master degree programmes at UK Universities and abroad.

I have an official letter from University of Wales (2005) that they accept GCGI in Engineering in to their Masters degree porogramme.

Edited: 11 May 2013 at 04:10 PM by MosheW
 11 May 2013 04:13 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Aitken1953

Posts: 140
Joined: 25 June 2006

Thanks for that
 13 May 2013 10:18 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



dedic

Posts: 3
Joined: 23 September 2011

@MoscheW

What documentation You received within MCGI registration? MCGI Certificate? Any other paper that states that MCGI is equivalent to UK Masters Degree? Basically, I have Masters Degree and I am registered as Chartered Engineer (eariler via BCS), but I would like to apply for MCGI qualification. Does it make any sense for me to apply? As I currently live in continental Europe I think I might need some formal document like "Notice of Award" (besided MCGI diploma itself) for MCGI qualification to prove I am acutally allowed to use this postnominals, etc.

For example: In Germany and Austria besides Diploma itself, You get additional document called "Bescheid" (Notice of Award) which states what is the law bases for such award. Only with this document Your qualification is valid. Does document like this exist for MCGI, so one can use it without any problems in continental Europe?

Also, does anyone has any idea how MCGI Diploma looks like and what is written on it?

Thanks in advance for response
 14 May 2013 04:23 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for MosheW.
MosheW

Posts: 192
Joined: 14 April 2013

dedic.

WHen I was awarded GCGI it came with a formal letter from City and Guilds that explicitly congratulated me and stated that I'm allowed to use GCGI letters after my name.

Also each country has its own agency that evaluates credentials from other countries.

I know that NARIC UK evaluates foreign degrees and provides a document a report that states how the degree compares to UK degree. For additional fee I think of 30 BP they also award a certificate of equivalence.

In USA I had my GCGI evaluated by NACES member agency and they issued a report that states that GCGI is equivalent to Bachelors degree earned in US Regionally Accredited University

As far as I know NARIC has offices in EU. Also one needs to check with their country's Ministry of Education to find out who provides recognized credential evaluation in that country.

For exmaple in Russian Federation its a department within Russian Minisry of Education.


On MCGI diploma it states that it is a level 7 on Qualification Framework.

If you want you can contact Coty and Guilds and they will provide you with a letter that MCGI is on the level of UK Masters Degree or as they had on their web site on a level of Master degree graduate from European University.

The disadvantage is that unlike the Masters Degree that comes with Transcript / Supplement listing you classes and grades the GCGI or MCGI have no such supplement.

It makes harder to apply to traditional Universities and some simply deny admissions.

If you already have recognized Masters Degree and you are CEng
then MCGI award is additional validation and somewhat redundant.

I rank MCGI above MEng alone because its a combination of Education + Training + Experience.

Edited: 14 May 2013 at 04:32 AM by MosheW
 14 May 2013 07:54 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



dedic

Posts: 3
Joined: 23 September 2011

@MosheW

Thanks for response. I called City and Guilds yesterday, but I couldn't get any relevant information. Lady that answered me had no any knowledge about applying for Senior Awards. Also, I tried to contact them via Email asking several questions, but I only got the answer with downloadable Application form (and not the one for Engineering, but for the Army). However, I think You're right - it might be redundant to appy for MCGI.

Thanks for Email
 17 May 2013 01:14 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



SAVIO

Posts: 343
Joined: 07 May 2002

A few years ago, my brother got MCGI. There is an application form which can be downloaded from City & Guilds website. The application fee was about GBP300 and you only need to pay once in your life. You need to attach the copy of your CEng and MIET certificates. There will be a certificate issued from City & Guilds stating that you are a Member of CGI. It is a norm that people got MCGI, they can write the post-nominal MCGI after their name in business cards, letterhead, etc. There will be mails from City & Guilds inviting you to attend the ceremony to obtain the MCGI qualification in London, AGM every year in London and annual newsletter from City & Guilds.
 17 May 2013 06:36 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for MosheW.
MosheW

Posts: 192
Joined: 14 April 2013

The City and Guilds make it confusing.

They call it Award. On their stae its listed as vocational Certificate of competence and on the certificate it self it is written that " This Diploma certifies that the Council of the Institute" etc.

So what is it , Award, Certificate or Diploma?

On the UK QCF:

Award level 7 is Masters degree level award from 1 to 6 units.
Certificate level 7 is Masters degree level certificate 12 to 36 credits - some Masters Degrees have 36 credits so its could be it.
Diploma level 7 is usually 37 and above credits of Masters Degree level.

The Vocational Competence Certificate (VCC) - is a system of education and certification. The VCC ideas are in accordance with strategic documents and directives in the European Union within the vocational range of education:
Initiation "New abilities on new work posts" - education and training customized to labour market needs and an access to education during the whole professional life,
The European Credit System for Vocational Education,
The CELAN system - aimed at promoting foreign languages,
Strategy Europe 2020,
The European Professional Card - implemented by the European Commission to give employees the same rights in all European Union Countries,
The European Qualifications Framework.

City and Guilds site:

City & Guilds Level 7 Award for Professional Recognition
Accreditation No:600/6109/1
Type:Vocation Certificate of competence
Creditsata unavailable
Guided Learning Hours:6 - 6
Last certification date:01/01/2020

http://web.archive.org/web/201...dguilds.com/43111.html

Link to Application form:

http://web.archive.org/web/20111103162442/http://www.cityandguilds.com/documents/ind_generic_docs_seniorawards/AS_Senior_awards_in_Engineering_v1.pdf

Also on EngC site there are profiles of IEng and CEng you can read about some who CEng and MCGI

For example:

Scott Brown M.Ed. CEng CSci MIPEM RICR MCGI
Research Manager, Royal Cornwall Hospitals NHS Trust, Truro(with kind permission of IPEM's journal SCOPE, June 2011)

Edited: 17 May 2013 at 07:25 AM by MosheW
 19 May 2013 01:56 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



EmmaPaull

Posts: 2
Joined: 19 May 2013

Well, I'm not quite satisfied with "The City and Guilds" as well. There are some uncertainties in their certificate.
 19 May 2013 07:35 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for MosheW.
MosheW

Posts: 192
Joined: 14 April 2013

Originally posted by: EmmaPaull

Well, I'm not quite satisfied with "The City and Guilds" as well. There are some uncertainties in their certificate.


I think the value added and return on investment is high.
One only pays 270 for GCGI and 370 for MCGI for Engineering direct rout.

Compare the cost of Degree.

I'm very happy with the recognition of my City ad Guilds GCGI.
Yes, there could be more clarity but there is a lot of good in the award vs a little bit of uncertainties.

Also now as of 2012 they officially NVQ.
 19 May 2013 09:38 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



jcm256

Posts: 1796
Joined: 01 April 2006

MosheW

Wrong of you to put the title GCGI at the end, this is a prestige title and entitles the recipient to wear the academic regalia of University of London BA Gown, with the hood of a diplomat of Imperial College with a slight colour change.
From wikipedia:
Practice in the UK varies from that in the US partly because it is designed to draw attention to the fact that not everybody who possesses a higher ranking award possesses lower ones as well. For example, it is perfectly possible to obtain a PhD without getting a master's degree first. It is also possible for somebody who has never received a formal university education to be awarded an honorary degree. Therefore it is customary to list all higher educational awards post-nominally although one should not list step qualifications. In other words, lower awards that are wholly incorporated into higher-ranking awards should not be listed (for example, in the case of an MA from Oxford or Cambridge University, "John Smith, MA" rather than "John Smith, BA MA") - to do so would give the impression that one possesses two discrete academic qualifications.
Following the same principle, when the lower qualification is a passport to the higher qualification (e.g. where a bachelor's degree is a requirement for doing a master's degree) or the credit for a lower award (such as a Certificate or Diploma of Higher Education) is notwholly incorporated into a higher award, lower qualifications may be included. For example, credit for a Certificate of Higher Education can be used to exempt the holder from some of the requirements of a bachelor's degree and in such a case it would be wrong to list one's qualification as "Jane Smith, CertHE BSc". However, if one did not apply some of the credit for one's CertHE to obtaining one's bachelor's degree, it would be acceptable to list both qualifications.
Where two discrete qualifications with the same name have been obtained (for example an Oxbridge MA and a postgraduate MA from another university), this is usually indicated by using the abbreviations of the awarding body, e.g. "Jane Smith MA (Oxf & Lond)".
See also
http://www.theiet.org/membersh...tters/index.cfm

Please note not now called Senior Awards:
As of September 2012 the awards are called - Professional Recognition Awards. In addition to Royal Charter (The highest level of Accreditation in UK) the awards are NQF (National Qualifications Framework) accredited qualifications which enable candidates to demonstrate their knowledge and skills within any sector or role. Those achieving these awards will be entitled to use an appropriate, internationally recognised post-nominal: Licentiateship (LCGI), Affiliateship (AfCGI), Graduateship (GCGI) and Membership (MCGI). They can also help candidates working towards higher level qualifications. [6]
Recognition [edit]
Royal Charter (Highest level of Accreditation in UK)
OfQual NQF (National Qualifications Framework) accredited qualifications which enable candidates to demonstrate their knowledge and skills within any sector or role. Those achieving these awards will be entitled to use an appropriate, internationally recognised post-nominal: Licentiateship (LCGI), Affiliateship (AfCGI), Graduateship (GCGI) and Membership (MCGI).
City & Guild higher level qualifications are acknowledged under the Lisbon Recognition Convention.[7]
City & Guilds higher level qualifications are yet to be recognised in some parts of the world, e.g. Jamaica. The University Council of Jamaica (UCJ) is currently considering the qualifications at different levels, granted via assessment and learning.


http://www.cityandguilds.com/C...ognition-awards
 19 May 2013 11:05 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for MosheW.
MosheW

Posts: 192
Joined: 14 April 2013

Originally posted by: jcm256

MosheW



Wrong of you to put the title GCGI at the end, this is a prestige title and entitles the recipient to wear the academic regalia of University of London BA Gown, with the hood of a diplomat of Imperial College with a slight colour change.

From wikipedia:

Practice in the UK varies from that in the US partly because it is designed to draw attention to the fact that not everybody who possesses a higher ranking award possesses lower ones as well. For example, it is perfectly possible to obtain a PhD without getting a master's degree first. It is also possible for somebody who has never received a formal university education to be awarded an honorary degree. Therefore it is customary to list all higher educational awards post-nominally although one should not list step qualifications. In other words, lower awards that are wholly incorporated into higher-ranking awards should not be listed (for example, in the case of an MA from Oxford or Cambridge University, "John Smith, MA" rather than "John Smith, BA MA") - to do so would give the impression that one possesses two discrete academic qualifications.

Following the same principle, when the lower qualification is a passport to the higher qualification (e.g. where a bachelor's degree is a requirement for doing a master's degree) or the credit for a lower award (such as a Certificate or Diploma of Higher Education) is notwholly incorporated into a higher award, lower qualifications may be included. For example, credit for a Certificate of Higher Education can be used to exempt the holder from some of the requirements of a bachelor's degree and in such a case it would be wrong to list one's qualification as "Jane Smith, CertHE BSc". However, if one did not apply some of the credit for one's CertHE to obtaining one's bachelor's degree, it would be acceptable to list both qualifications.

Where two discrete qualifications with the same name have been obtained (for example an Oxbridge MA and a postgraduate MA from another university), this is usually indicated by using the abbreviations of the awarding body, e.g. "Jane Smith MA (Oxf & Lond)".

See also

">"><br ">&l.....t.org...sh......cfm
...r />



Please note not now called Senior Awards:

As of September 2012 the awards are called - Professional Recognition Awards. In addition to Royal Charter (The highest level of Accreditation in UK) the awards are NQF (National Qualifications Framework) accredited qualifications which enable candidates to demonstrate their knowledge and skills within any sector or role. Those achieving these awards will be entitled to use an appropriate, internationally recognised post-nominal: Licentiateship (LCGI), Affiliateship (AfCGI), Graduateship (GCGI) and Membership (MCGI). They can also help candidates working towards higher level qualifications. [6]

Recognition [edit]

Royal Charter (Highest level of Accreditation in UK)

OfQual NQF (National Qualifications Framework) accredited qualifications which enable candidates to demonstrate their knowledge and skills within any sector or role. Those achieving these awards will be entitled to use an appropriate, internationally recognised post-nominal: Licentiateship (LCGI), Affiliateship (AfCGI), Graduateship (GCGI) and Membership (MCGI).

City & Guild higher level qualifications are acknowledged under the Lisbon Recognition Convention.[7]

City & Guilds higher level qualifications are yet to be recognised in some parts of the world, e.g. Jamaica. The University Council of Jamaica (UCJ) is currently considering the qualifications at different levels, granted via assessment and learning.





"><a target=_blank class...m/C...ognition-awards
"><br "><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.cityandguilds.com/C...al-recognition-awards
<br ">http://...ndgui.../C.....ards
...r />]http://www.theiet.org/membership/manage/use-designatory-letters/index.cfm
<br [/L]

]http://www.cityandguil...m/C.....ards
[/L]


No one is puting the title GCGI at the end.

Actually the rule to list titles in their alphabetical order.

So if you have BEng it will come after your name before GCGI.
I'm GCGI and as mentioned earlier I'm proud to achive IEng and GCGI etc.

The discussion and maybe you can answer is not only what City and Guilds tells about but how others, Employers, Universities etc recognize the awards.
When you list it on your resume without proper explanation what it is, do you have potential employer or hiring manager ask you what it is?

GCGI is Education + Training + Experience. NVQ level 6.

So if you look at the awards what are they - lets say GCGI is it AWARD, CERTIFICATE or DIPLOMA on leve.l 6 on QCF?

Again all I'm talking about is clarity.

Edited: 20 May 2013 at 04:57 AM by MosheW
 20 May 2013 09:34 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Simon750

Posts: 111
Joined: 25 April 2007

I can give a very clear scenario relating to the acceptance of the GCGI.

The GCGI is not recognized by the Chartered Management Institute as acceptable for the qualified route for Chartered Manager (CMgr), despite the requirement being Level 5.

This is despite OFQUAL clearly stating the level, and being shown on the Framework for Higher Educational Qualifications (FHEQ) as at the same level as Bachelor's (level 6).

They accept the content as comparable, yet do not accept it in terms of level and size (the number guided hours are not sufficient for them)

-------------------------
Simon Long CMgr FCMI FInstLM
 20 May 2013 07:02 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for MosheW.
MosheW

Posts: 192
Joined: 14 April 2013

Originally posted by: Simon750

I can give a very clear scenario relating to the acceptance of the GCGI.



The GCGI is not recognized by the Chartered Management Institute as acceptable for the qualified route for Chartered Manager (CMgr), despite the requirement being Level 5.



This is despite OFQUAL clearly stating the level, and being shown on the Framework for Higher Educational Qualifications (FHEQ) as at the same level as Bachelor's (level 6).



They accept the content as comparable, yet do not accept it in terms of level and size (the number guided hours are not sufficient for them)


GCGI even 10 or 20 years ego wasn't accepted as qualifying academic degree for registration by most of the EngC licensed institutes.

The main reason was that it had portfolio and thesis rout in the past.
So it was competing with Technical Paper/project rout or Mature Adult.

IET specifically stated and also Chartered Management Institute that the award wasn't assessed for registration.

So they looked at it case per case per candidate.

Now, this doesn't reflect on acceptance by Employers and Universities in UK.

Many Universities accept GCGI for Top Up saving a person 3 out 4 years of University. Its not a bad deal.
By completing a final year at IET accredited university and also accredited Masters degree or other Institutes accredited university one can then use the academic rout to registration.

I seen GCGI accepted in some EU countries for State Diploma and that diploma is in EU Directive so it is accepted for IEng registration via academic rout by EngC. I know number of IEngs who via Inst of Mechanical Engineers earned IEng this way. I have a letter from EngC UK that specifically approves the EU State Diploma for IEng registration.

GCGI + 100 BP plus experience all that needed to get that EU Diploma.

Edited: 20 May 2013 at 07:10 PM by MosheW
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.