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Topic Title: The cost of being British
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Created On: 01 May 2012 09:05 PM
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 01 May 2012 09:05 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1841
Joined: 01 April 2006

As you know those who live in Northern Ireland can hold both an Irish Passport and a British/EU Passport. For students in NI and Britain with an Irish passport or any other EU passport (except one that states European Union United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) it can be worth £36K to get free university education in Scotland. It does not seem fair play on an English/Welsh Student. However, nobody seems to care.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17900220
 02 May 2012 09:00 AM
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westonpa

Posts: 1771
Joined: 10 October 2007

That is because of a decision the Scottish govenment make about their education and that is up to them. One of my children went to university and works and the other did not and works.....it's a choice people make.

Regards.
 02 May 2012 11:48 AM
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ArthurHall

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Joined: 25 July 2008

The Scots are British too, at the moment.
 02 May 2012 05:15 PM
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gkenyon

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Surely if this is true, is it tantamount to discrimination as defined in the Equality Act, as UK Citizens are being treated differently to citizens of other EU countries?

I thought that the Equality Act included "Nationality" in the definition of the "Protected Characteristic" of "Race", and therefore treating any UK Nationals (some get it free, some don't) differently to other EU Nationals (all can get it free) would be a breach of the Equality Act?

AFAIK, the Act is also enabled in Scotland?

Under Section 13(1), "A person (A) discriminates against another (B) if, because of a protected characteristic, A treats B less favourably than A treats or would treat others."

Or is this particular case covered in a raft of exemptions of the Act, or am I on the wrong track?

At the end of the day, could be said to illustrate the nonsense of the current "devolution" arrangements. Either we want devolution and to separate the countries of the UK, or we want a UK. Not sure there's a workable "halfway house".

-------------------------
Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH

Edited: 02 May 2012 at 05:21 PM by gkenyon
 02 May 2012 08:18 PM
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westonpa

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Originally posted by: gkenyon
At the end of the day, could be said to illustrate the nonsense of the current "devolution" arrangements. Either we want devolution and to separate the countries of the UK, or we want a UK. Not sure there's a workable "halfway house".

Good point!

Regards.
 03 May 2012 10:29 AM
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ArthurHall

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It has nothing to do with race. Its to do with where you live and what government you elect. Scots of all races get free education because thats what their elected goverment put in place.
I agree that the hafeway house is not realy workable, The union has not worked, it is time for the nations to go their own way.
 03 May 2012 12:42 PM
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gkenyon

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Originally posted by: ArthurHall

It has nothing to do with race. Its to do with where you live and what government you elect. Scots of all races get free education because thats what their elected goverment put in place.
No, that's not my argument.

My argument is that UK Citizens are potentially being treated differently to other members of the EU (i.e. the selection criteria of being "Scots" - or "Scottish" for those who prefer - applies to UK Citizens, but not Eire Citizens, for example).

Why do I come to this conclusion?

Because "race" is defined in the Act as including Nationality, and everyone in the UK's Nationality is "UK Citizen" on their passport? If not "UK", then of course the Welsh are being discriminated against by virtue of their nationality, by being treated differently to the Irish?

-------------------------
Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
 03 May 2012 07:23 PM
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jencam

Posts: 608
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It is blatant discrimination.

There is no clearly defined legislation on who is a Scottish or an English citizen and both hold the same passports. The criteria to obtain free university education in Scotland is based on residence time and not the criteria of Jus Soli or Jus Sanguinus.
 09 May 2012 06:43 PM
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jcm256

Posts: 1841
Joined: 01 April 2006

More news on above topic:

Students from England or Wales who have an Irish grandparent could avoid paying tuition fees at Scottish universities because of a legal loophole, it has emerged.

"><br ">http://.....edu...otland.html




Scotland is right on this one:

">http://www.dailyrecord...k/n.....8-23854234/


Regards

Edited: 11 May 2012 at 09:42 AM by jcm256
 04 July 2012 07:45 AM
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thewaverider

Posts: 14
Joined: 03 June 2011

I have been looking at re-doing my OU degree as it is out of date and not recognised anymore. This is a home study degree.
Being English it will cost me £15k
If I were Scottish, Welsh or Irish it would cost me less than half of that amount!
Why? It feels like I am being victimised because I am English. I want to move forward with my career but at £15k and with a family/mortgage its a decision I can't afford to make. So therefore it rules out progressing to Ieng or Ceng and further long term goals.
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