IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: 1st BEng vs. 2:2 MEng
Topic Summary:
Created On: 03 March 2012 08:43 AM
Status: Read Only
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
<< 1 2 Previous Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 13 March 2012 12:38 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



amillar

Posts: 1918
Joined: 28 May 2002

Originally posted by: mbirdi
What sort of logic is it in believing that someone with a 1st on a 3 year course is better than someone with a 2nd or 3rd on a 4 year course? The guy with the 1st is a whole year behind in education.

Sorry Andy, but you seem to have gone to the 'dark side' of management. Come back to the 'good side' of engineering.

I'm not saying it's logical, it's just that over here on the dark side I get to see how recruiters work. Personally I don't reject CVs on qualifications but I'm well aware that I'm extremely unusual in this so I have to advise based on the wider view.

I would, however, mention that an extra year's education doesn't necessarily make you more useful to an employer (having recently interviewed a number of recent Bachelors and Masters graduates). If that extra year is broadening your knowledge then great, if it is narrowing in on a specific engineering area then you are narrowing your appeal to mainly employers in that exact field.

In any case, my view is pretty irrelevant since my 3rd means that I'm clearly lazy or stupid or both Which just goes to show that you can't necessarily predict someone's capabilities or future engineering career based on their performance as a 21 year old - other factors can occasionally skew those results wildly. Unfortunately that doesn't help you with recruiters who are trying to make a snap decision.

It is a really good question as to what typically happens to those with 2.2s and 3rds these days, my best guess is that they move out of engineering but it would be interesting to know.

-------------------------
Andy Millar CEng MIET CMgr MCMI

http://www.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." Joseph Joubert
 13 March 2012 01:18 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



amillar

Posts: 1918
Joined: 28 May 2002

Just re-read my second para, I didn't put that very well: extra education is pretty much always worthwhile for the educatee in the long term, but it may not help employers in the short term.

-------------------------
Andy Millar CEng MIET CMgr MCMI

http://www.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

"The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress." Joseph Joubert
 13 March 2012 02:45 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mbirdi

Posts: 1907
Joined: 13 June 2005

Fair enough.

May the force be with you Obi.....err I mean Andy.
 14 March 2012 01:22 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



promsan

Posts: 10
Joined: 25 July 2008

I have to say that I wouldn't advise my kids to do a degree (or A-levels) in a hurry. If you actually want a job, it seems you're far better off doing an apprenticeship or HNC (or two), and then chasing the expensive kudos later on after you've got established in something you actually enjoy. The kudos is only shorlived, the grade is only really useful when trying to get past HR goons.

The downsides of the Left's crusade of trying to turn everything into a degree to try and massively increase the numbers of people with degrees (of whatever quality or repute), is to kid people into thinking that it's a sliver bullet to slay the beast of penury. Degrees seem to contain about 2/3 useful stuff, and a 1/3 fluff in the form of so-called "management" stuff. Students get rushed through courses where the exam is everything, and the lack of income means getting extra work is a necessity, which also forces you to rationalise the workload, and the whole thing's a chore. It should be both fun and useful, but it seems to be a gravy train.

[soapbox]
The whole point of degrees is education for it's own sake, as path towards research, and trying to force this model around the main market demand, which is employment, is part of the problem, as the goals of unis are not compatible with the goals of industry.
Using the lazy 80-20 rule might more or less make sense... of those 50% of people processed through the uni system, only 20% should be doing academic degrees, the other 80% should be doing a vocational degree with practical work placements facilitated by tax breaks for companies to create that opportunity. The grumbles about graduates from employers are not unsubstantiated; nor are the grumbles from uni about school leavers. It seems pretty self-evident that the whole academic industry has got out of hand.
[/soapbox]
 05 April 2012 11:06 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



chris1982

Posts: 35
Joined: 09 August 2007

Originally posted by: amillar

It is a really good question as to what typically happens to those with 2.2s and 3rds these days, my best guess is that they move out of engineering but it would be interesting to know.



they can get engineering jobs too I did anyway. Since finishing uni 8 years, I have had 4 jobs in companies of varying sizes, always moving onto to try and further myself and I have to say that my degree classification has never held me back.
 28 August 2012 03:47 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Alexjkay

Posts: 1
Joined: 27 June 2011

Originally posted by: promsan

I have to say that I wouldn't advise my kids to do a degree (or A-levels) in a hurry. If you actually want a job, it seems you're far better off doing an apprenticeship or HNC (or two), and then chasing the expensive kudos later on after you've got established in something you actually enjoy. The kudos is only shorlived, the grade is only really useful when trying to get past HR goons.


I know this is a few months old now, but I just found it and feel I need to add my 2c... I completely agree with this, I have recently finished an apprenticeship/HNC/FdSc and am now enrolled on a BEng/MEng 4 year par time course, and I couldn't be happier.

Instead of doing what all my friends did and stay on for A level I chose the apprenticeship route and now am much better off (than most of them, some of them are obviously doing well for themselves!) But in the time it has taken for me to complete all of that, they have either just finished a BSc/BA/BEng etc with a placement year in industry, or are just finishing an MEng/MSc/MPhys etc without a year out.

My employer has been funding my studies for the past 6 years, and is continuing to fund the degree, which is cheaper anyway as a Foundation Degree is equivalent to the second year of a full time degree and as such is subject to legacy rates.

So if i can give any advice to the 16 or 18 year olds out there that are wondering whether to go to uni or not, I would definitely recommend an apprenticeship instead! in the time it has taken my friends to get their A levels and Degrees, I have stacked up a load of vocational qualifications (BTEC's, NVQ's, National Certificate, HNC, FdSc) and also have 6 years of experience working for a company... no brainer if you ask me

(although, if you want to do that route and have an MEng in your sites, be aware that it could take over 10 years.. :-S)

Thanks all!
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.