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Topic Title: CEng Application
Topic Summary: Competency A & B
Created On: 22 July 2009 03:40 PM
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 02 November 2009 07:14 PM
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DavidParr

Posts: 238
Joined: 19 April 2002

In my opinion, the institution are currently putting a great deal of effort in to ensure that the registration process is as fair and user friendly as possible. Work is ongoing to improve the application process, improving the forms and giving candidates access to more advice.
If you look at the local group activities, many areas are running registration events, some with direct access to Professional Registration Advisers. Anyone who wishes can get access to a mentor. Remember that many of the people involved in the registration process do this work in a purely voluntary capacity.
Don't get me wrong, it is not perfect, but the will to improve whilst maintaining standards is most definitely there.

-------------------------
David Parr BSc.CEng MIET
PRA
 02 November 2009 07:45 PM
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faramog

Posts: 444
Joined: 25 November 2002

Originally posted by: dvaidr

Ah, faramog. Another voice of reason at the IET! You obviously have some input. Just why are interviews so defensive of a flawed process?



Simplistically (and realistically), it's a lottery, period. I have come across many CEng's who wouldn't know innovation and creativity if it approached them at the speed of light and smacked them smartly between the eyes.



If 'weaknesses' are permitted in A and B then why the big differentiator. Why aren't IEng and CEng the same taking into account this blurring fo the edges, (that said this blurring has been refuted by some of your learned chums on the panel, assuming that you sit on 'the panel')



From experience, the application isn't perhaps always assimilated which as we all know is rather different to 'read'. Assimilation by 'the panel' would improve the process, manifold. A.S.S.I.M.I.L.A.T.I.O.N. The way forward!



I was told by a number of learned individuals at the IET that A and B had to be spot on or one was lost. Just how good is this outfit nowadays? Inconsistency rules.



But, hey! Who am I to say?


Clearly from your tone you are not interested in objectivity or assistance ... just whinging. You are entitled to your opinion, but when you question my motives in posting a response to you and suggest I am some cog of the machine you are just wrong (again).

If you are so unhappy, then maybe you should cancel your membership. Alternatively, I could offer you two alternates: get involved and help change things or come to one of the advisors seminar/conference/training session and air your views... I am sure in the circumstances you could get an invite.

-------------------------
Eur Ing Graham Prebble CEng MIEE
 02 November 2009 08:36 PM
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danielscott

Posts: 461
Joined: 18 April 2003

Originally posted by: faramog

Originally posted by: dvaidr



Ah, faramog. Another voice of reason at the IET! You obviously have some input. Just why are interviews so defensive of a flawed process?







Simplistically (and realistically), it's a lottery, period. I have come across many CEng's who wouldn't know innovation and creativity if it approached them at the speed of light and smacked them smartly between the eyes.







If 'weaknesses' are permitted in A and B then why the big differentiator. Why aren't IEng and CEng the same taking into account this blurring fo the edges, (that said this blurring has been refuted by some of your learned chums on the panel, assuming that you sit on 'the panel')







From experience, the application isn't perhaps always assimilated which as we all know is rather different to 'read'. Assimilation by 'the panel' would improve the process, manifold. A.S.S.I.M.I.L.A.T.I.O.N. The way forward!







I was told by a number of learned individuals at the IET that A and B had to be spot on or one was lost. Just how good is this outfit nowadays? Inconsistency rules.







But, hey! Who am I to say?




Clearly from your tone you are not interested in objectivity or assistance ... just whinging. You are entitled to your opinion, but when you question my motives in posting a response to you and suggest I am some cog of the machine you are just wrong (again).



If you are so unhappy, then maybe you should cancel your membership. Alternatively, I could offer you two alternates: get involved and help change things or come to one of the advisors seminar/conference/training session and air your views... I am sure in the circumstances you could get an invite.


May I ask you a question faramog.:-

How close do you live to your Local Network, so to speak. Do you have to travel very far to get there and if you do, how many IEng's and or CEng's attend the scheduled meetings.

This Forum is for members and most times the only way they can vent their feelings, and it's great if they do, because of the thousands of members who have the opportunity to participate here, I guess very few do. Does that mean they are all content, just to lazy, or just not interested.
I believe they are just not interested.

It is called a discussion forum, good or bad, depending on which side you might be on.

Cheers,

Daniel Scott GCGI, IEng ,MIET
 02 November 2009 09:17 PM
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westonpa

Posts: 1771
Joined: 10 October 2007

I think faramog is discussing well......and quite fairly too. When people post strong opinions/comments they invite equally strong replies/comments.

Regards.
 02 November 2009 11:47 PM
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danielscott

Posts: 461
Joined: 18 April 2003

Originally posted by: westonpa

I think faramog is discussing well......and quite fairly too. When people post strong opinions/comments they invite equally strong replies/comments.



Regards.


I didn't mention anywhere in my response he was unfair. But I do think faramog like several previous members of this forum who are on IET committies etc., feel aggrieved when someone points out to them what they feel as failures of the IET in a certain area,(they happen to be part of ), jump to defend their own position.

Instead of suggesting he might quit the IET or attend some advisors seminar etc., he could have asked if he could help in anyway. Now that would be nice.

I believe in an earlier discussion forum a senior member did ask him for information privately.

Cheers,

Daniel
 03 November 2009 07:54 AM
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dvaidr

Posts: 519
Joined: 08 June 2003

Faramog. Your response thus far implies that you are 'involved' in some way and is typically dogmatic of what I see as the 'old school'.

If you had been on the same end of the treatment scale I've endured, I don't doubt you might be a wee bit on the disgruntled side.

I am 'involved' but it's like treading water at times. I expected Black Rod with his mace coming to meet me at my interview, (I managed to 'cross the line' by the way). Now is the time for change - a flushing out of the detritus which has built up over the years.

IMechE chose not to amalgamate with the IEE/IIE and if you've had any experiences with the IMechE, it's easy to see which one 'won the war'.

I am entitled to question your posting - I am your peer.

Your suggestion of my cancelling my membership is not becoming of a CEng, let alone someone in your privledged position, (you clearly do sit on the panel then), and as a result I have escalated this to executive level within the IET. Frankly it's deplorable, shameful but hardly shocking. I wonder just what the registration/membership executive will make of that statement. It's now up to me to pull out the long knives, I think!

As it happens, I did ask for help again and again and again and.........result - not much really. My level of involvement, thus far, includes being a registered Faraday Engineer, a mentor and I've also played around with the idea of joining forces with the IMechE Reliability Working Group, just as the IET/IAM has done with PAS-55 and Asset Management Executive Committee, on which I have held a place for three years. There! You'll be able to put a face to a name now! Sadly, I couldn't muster the 'help' I needed to put this into development.

You're not the only one of course to jump in with both feet, mansador (sp) did exactly the same and he is also 'involved'. You 'learned gentlemen' should know better than to jump in without your wellies on. Have we, I wonder, uncovered the problem with the lack of CEng applicants making into the Telegraph and Times?

I'm donning my deerstalker as I write!

Edited: 03 November 2009 at 08:14 AM by dvaidr
 03 November 2009 08:20 AM
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dvaidr

Posts: 519
Joined: 08 June 2003

Originally posted by: danielscott

Originally posted by: westonpa



I think faramog is discussing well......and quite fairly too. When people post strong opinions/comments they invite equally strong replies/comments.







Regards.


I believe in an earlier discussion forum a senior member did ask him for information privately.



Cheers,



Daniel


Indeed he did. He must have a heart like a lion.
 03 November 2009 08:40 AM
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dvaidr

Posts: 519
Joined: 08 June 2003

Originally posted by: DavidParr

In my opinion, the institution are currently putting a great deal of effort in to ensure that the registration process is as fair and user friendly as possible. Work is ongoing to improve the application process, improving the forms and giving candidates access to more advice.

If you look at the local group activities, many areas are running registration events, some with direct access to Professional Registration Advisers. Anyone who wishes can get access to a mentor. Remember that many of the people involved in the registration process do this work in a purely voluntary capacity.

Don't get me wrong, it is not perfect, but the will to improve whilst maintaining standards is most definitely there.


David.

I am aware that much of the support is provided by volunteers - I am one. But this is absolutly no excuse. Are we saying, "Come on boys and girls, get registered. But be warned, you may or may not get support because we're really not fit for purpose" And that's what I hear when the old excuse rears it's head, (voluntarily, of course).

If registration isn't fit for purpose, and to my mind it isn't, it's about time we were recognising this, painful as it may be.

In a outfit like the IET, there is absolutely no room for manouerve. It MUST provide the service it says it provides. It's like a Uni saying, "Come and do you degree here, but we warned, you may not get anyone to mark your paper" It's a preposterous situation!
 03 November 2009 10:11 AM
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westonpa

Posts: 1771
Joined: 10 October 2007

Originally posted by: dvaidr

Your suggestion of my cancelling my membership is not becoming of a CEng, let alone someone in your privledged position, (you clearly do sit on the panel then), and as a result I have escalated this to executive level within the IET. Frankly it's deplorable, shameful but hardly shocking. I wonder just what the registration/membership executive will make of that statement. It's now up to me to pull out the long knives, I think!

As it happens, I did ask for help again and again and again and.........result - not much really. My level of involvement, thus far, includes being a registered Faraday Engineer, a mentor and I've also played around with the idea of joining forces with the IMechE Reliability Working Group, just as the IET/IAM has done with PAS-55 and Asset Management Executive Committee, on which I have held a place for three years. There! You'll be able to put a face to a name now! Sadly, I couldn't muster the 'help' I needed to put this into development.

You're not the only one of course to jump in with both feet, mansador (sp) did exactly the same and he is also 'involved'. You 'learned gentlemen' should know better than to jump in without your wellies on. Have we, I wonder, uncovered the problem with the lack of CEng applicants making into the Telegraph and Times?

I'm donning my deerstalker as I write!


You have informed faramog his behaviour is not becomming of someone in his position. You have then explained your own positions and accomplishments, and they are very impressive, so maybe you can explain how your behaviour is becomming of your positions and professional status.

Regards.
 03 November 2009 10:11 AM
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westonpa

Posts: 1771
Joined: 10 October 2007

Originally posted by: dvaidr

Your suggestion of my cancelling my membership is not becoming of a CEng, let alone someone in your privledged position, (you clearly do sit on the panel then), and as a result I have escalated this to executive level within the IET. Frankly it's deplorable, shameful but hardly shocking. I wonder just what the registration/membership executive will make of that statement. It's now up to me to pull out the long knives, I think!

As it happens, I did ask for help again and again and again and.........result - not much really. My level of involvement, thus far, includes being a registered Faraday Engineer, a mentor and I've also played around with the idea of joining forces with the IMechE Reliability Working Group, just as the IET/IAM has done with PAS-55 and Asset Management Executive Committee, on which I have held a place for three years. There! You'll be able to put a face to a name now! Sadly, I couldn't muster the 'help' I needed to put this into development.

You're not the only one of course to jump in with both feet, mansador (sp) did exactly the same and he is also 'involved'. You 'learned gentlemen' should know better than to jump in without your wellies on. Have we, I wonder, uncovered the problem with the lack of CEng applicants making into the Telegraph and Times?

I'm donning my deerstalker as I write!


You have informed faramog his behaviour is not becomming of someone in his position. You have then explained your own positions and accomplishments, and they are very impressive, so maybe you can explain how your behaviour is becomming of your positions and professional status.

Regards.
 03 November 2009 10:24 AM
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dvaidr

Posts: 519
Joined: 08 June 2003

westonpa.

I speak as I find and never put both feet in without wellies. As a mentor, I would never dream of suggesting to a member the options of cancelling his/her membership; indeed, I go that mile further to help people.

Being CEng is about doing research. Comments like "Absolute Rubbish" are unfounded in relation to my case. I can only repeat information that I am told by the learned departments who know about these things. I, perhaps erroneously, respected their opinion.

What comments do you relate to in particular?
 03 November 2009 11:13 AM
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faramog

Posts: 444
Joined: 25 November 2002

Just to be clear: I do not sit on any committee nor have I ever done so. I got involved as an industrial rep helping candidates apply and helping them through the process. Subsequent to that I was asked to become an interviewer and then assessor. My local network in Coventry & Warwick and I have never been to a meeting, but I do help out in some seminars. What time I have for the IET I choose to use in helping candidates in the application process and then assessing/interviewing. In the past (as some staff members will confirm) I have not been shy in making my views of some of the issues and problems known. No one has been in touch through the forum for help in applications as far as I am aware.

A great deal of the 'old guard' or was it 'old duffers' you said (can't quite remember) have retired or are winding out and it its newer people, many in the their 30's and 40's who are taking up the plate.

You chastise me for 'absolute rubbish' as you feel thats not right in your case - fine... but I have interviewed and assessed with a wide selection of people over the years, and in my experience, you view that A & B are king IS absolute rubbish. It might interest you to know there are some strong views on this with some feeling that A & B should be considered as one group and C,D & E another and both must me strong to keep and maintain standards. Many others have a different view - thats what peer review and peer concensus is in practice.

I did not tell anyone to cancel their membership, but if individuals are so unhappy, feeling so like the IET is a bunch of parasites (not sure whose comment that was), feel like the networks deliver nothing and the magazine is boring, then I am perfectly at liberty to suggest getting involved to change it, or leaving. If I don't like a restaurant, I don't go there again ... why is this different ?

David Robson - you have escalated to exec level. Thats called democracy. You have a greavance that you want to air and want some response. I am sure your views will be looked into and I look forward to some 'exec' getting in touch

-------------------------
Eur Ing Graham Prebble CEng MIEE
 03 November 2009 11:32 AM
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dvaidr

Posts: 519
Joined: 08 June 2003

Originally posted by: faramog

A great deal of the 'old guard' or was it 'old duffers' you said (can't quite remember) have retired or are winding out and it its newer people, many in the their 30's and 40's who are taking up the plate.

I did not tell anyone to cancel their membership, but if individuals are so unhappy, feeling so like the IET is a bunch of parasites (not sure whose comment that was), feel like the networks deliver nothing and the magazine is boring, then I am perfectly at liberty to suggest getting involved to change it, or leaving. If I don't like a restaurant, I don't go there again ... why is this different ?



You digress towards the end but it was a fair effort. I'm not particularly interested in what others have opined in the past and it has no bearing on these posts.

I never said that you told anyone to cancel theie membership. Your inferences are there for all to see though. As someone said, the offer of help is always nice.

You are at liberty to suggest getting involved to change it and I laid out my wares for all to see. However, suggesting to a member that the option to cancel their membership is there, is, frankly, churlish, negative and unacceptable.
 03 November 2009 12:06 PM
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westonpa

Posts: 1771
Joined: 10 October 2007

Originally posted by: dvaidr

westonpa.

I speak as I find and never put both feet in without wellies. As a mentor, I would never dream of suggesting to a member the options of cancelling his/her membership; indeed, I go that mile further to help people.

Being CEng is about doing research. Comments like "Absolute Rubbish" are unfounded in relation to my case. I can only repeat information that I am told by the learned departments who know about these things. I, perhaps erroneously, respected their opinion.

What comments do you relate to in particular?


You said that you are past the constructive bit and people only sit up and listen when you get negative.....and so on. So how can someone operate in the place that is beyond constructive and then claim to be acting in a way that is becomming of their stated professional, privileged and admirable positions?

My compliments to you for going the extra mile to help those you mentor, and so on.......maybe there was an extra mile to be had in being constructive.

Regards.
 03 November 2009 01:31 PM
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dvaidr

Posts: 519
Joined: 08 June 2003

Originally posted by: westonpa

Originally posted by: dvaidr



westonpa.



I speak as I find and never put both feet in without wellies. As a mentor, I would never dream of suggesting to a member the options of cancelling his/her membership; indeed, I go that mile further to help people.



Being CEng is about doing research. Comments like "Absolute Rubbish" are unfounded in relation to my case. I can only repeat information that I am told by the learned departments who know about these things. I, perhaps erroneously, respected their opinion.



What comments do you relate to in particular?




You said that you are past the constructive bit and people only sit up and listen when you get negative.....and so on. So how can someone operate in the place that is beyond constructive and then claim to be acting in a way that is becomming of their stated professional, privileged and admirable positions?



My compliments to you for going the extra mile to help those you mentor, and so on.......maybe there was an extra mile to be had in being constructive.



Regards.


"I beseech thee, be not out with me. I am a mere mortal and am given to bouts of being flawed". John Donne, I think.....somewhere in the seventeenth century.
 03 November 2009 03:05 PM
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westonpa

Posts: 1771
Joined: 10 October 2007

"I beseech thee, be not out with me. I am a mere mortal and am given to bouts of being flawed".

I can agree with that.

Regards.
 17 November 2009 08:57 PM
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ieechrisa

Posts: 25
Joined: 04 January 2005

Cblackha - could you also send me the example QRPD? I can't PM you as it is not available.

Thanks,
Chris

-------------------------
Chris Aitken BEng(Hons) MIET
 19 November 2009 09:32 PM
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cblackha

Posts: 76
Joined: 21 January 2003

Chris

I've enabled Private messages, please PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy

regards
Charlie
 20 November 2009 11:44 AM
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Gingram

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I have an interesting tale to tell regarding the IET and achieving professional status.

Until it all went belly up earlier this year I worked at Atkins in Leeds.

While working for Atkins I had regular contact with a couple of people (names long forgotten) regarding the above and they were keen to help especially as there were other engineers in the department of a similar mind.

Following release from Atkins I spoke several times to my local IET representative and all enthusiasm for supporting me seemed to have disappeared and as a consequence I plain lost interest!

So here I am in my new post earning the same salary as a CEng (my new company doesn't believe in professional titles, they just want the job done!) and although I feel let down and would personally like to be able to prove my worth I just get on with things.

The point of my ramblings? It strikes me that it may not be about the engineer but the company they work for.

Graham Ingram MIET

-------------------------
If I wasn't an Electrical Engineer I'd want to be an Electrical Engineer... Sad but true!

Edited: 20 November 2009 at 12:02 PM by Gingram
 04 September 2010 07:17 PM
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dvaidr

Posts: 519
Joined: 08 June 2003

Originally posted by: faramog

Originally posted by: dvaidr



Be sure to get these absolutely spot on. If there not, then you fail. The rest of the form isn't considered.




Absolute rubbish !! There are candidates who are very strong in A & B and poor in C,D & E who pass the line and vice-versa. Engineering is a broad brush and to say you must be 'spot on' in A & B is wrong



Simplistically, the key differentiators between IEng and CEng are around innovation and creativity and it is these areas that we look critically in A & B. That said, not being of sufficient standard here does not preclude you being chartered proving you have sufficient strengths in the other areas


Faramog - are you absolutely sure that this is the case? I've been advised differently. Fancy that.
IET » CEng, IEng, EngTech and other professional registration matters » CEng Application

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