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Topic Title: British Standards for Electrical Drawing Symbols for Autocad
Topic Summary: Autocad Symbols
Created On: 07 July 2010 05:02 PM
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 07 July 2010 05:02 PM
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nadirrashid

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Joined: 25 July 2008

Hello,
I would like to know if anyone would have BS EN 60617 Electrical Symbols which could be imported into Autocad? Or would anyone know where could I find them?

Thanks in advanced.

Regards

NR
 09 July 2010 09:49 AM
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gkenyon

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BS EN60617 was withdrawn a number of years back, because the standard is now only available by subscription to the IEC database.

This costs a lot of money, but is the only way to comply with the standards: unless you draw your own (but you'd need to subscribe to see what they looked like), or can buy/download them somewhere else, from another person or organisation who has done the same.


I noted that the Draft for Public Comment for Amendment No. 1 includes a requirement for BS EN60617 symbols: this should be addressed in the comments stage, because the standard has been withdrawn (i.e. it will need to be decided whether to refer to IEC60617 database, or replace the requirement with something else).

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH

Edited: 09 July 2010 at 10:10 AM by gkenyon
 29 October 2011 06:04 AM
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chotuustad

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ISO 9001:2008 specifies requirements for a quality management system where an organization

needs to demonstrate its ability to consistently provide product that meets customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements, and
aims to enhance customer satisfaction through the effective application of the system, including processes for continual improvement of the system and the assurance of conformity to customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements.
All requirements of ISO 9001:2008 are generic and are intended to be applicable to all organizations, regardless of type, size and product provided.

book

Where any requirement(s) of ISO 9001:2008 cannot be applied due to the nature of an organization and its product, this can be considered for exclusion.

Where exclusions are made, claims of conformity to ISO 9001:2008 are not acceptable unless these exclusions are limited to requirements within Clause 7, and such exclusions do not affect the organization's ability, or responsibility, to provide product that meets customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements.
 29 October 2011 12:44 PM
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gkenyon

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Originally posted by: chotuustad

ISO 9001:2008 specifies requirements for a quality management system where an organization



needs to demonstrate its ability to consistently provide product that meets customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements, and

aims to enhance customer satisfaction through the effective application of the system, including processes for continual improvement of the system and the assurance of conformity to customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements.

All requirements of ISO 9001:2008 are generic and are intended to be applicable to all organizations, regardless of type, size and product provided.



book



Where any requirement(s) of ISO 9001:2008 cannot be applied due to the nature of an organization and its product, this can be considered for exclusion.



Where exclusions are made, claims of conformity to ISO 9001:2008 are not acceptable unless these exclusions are limited to requirements within Clause 7, and such exclusions do not affect the organization's ability, or responsibility, to provide product that meets customer and applicable statutory and regulatory requirements.
Excellent commentary on quality, but we are looking at a safety-related issue here.

We need a common set of symbols for technical diagrams, so that maintainers and people carrying out improvements to installations in future can do so safely. Any misunderstanding of these symbols could lead to an incident !

Amendment No. 1 (2011) of BS7671: 2008 has since been published. IEC60617 is the requirement for symbols for diagrams of electrical installations in the UK now, and therefore any deviation that leads to injury or death as a result of non-conformant diagrams may indicate contributory factors on the part of the organisation responsible for the diagrams ?

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
 22 November 2011 12:39 PM
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chotuustad

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hey
 22 November 2011 02:51 PM
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gkenyon

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Originally posted by: chotuustad

hey
Hey what?

The current version of this standard is still only available by subscription to IEC, and there's still a potential issue, if someone mis-identifies something on a drawing and is injured (or killed) as a result.

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
 21 December 2011 10:49 AM
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subaqua

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Originally posted by: gkenyon

Originally posted by: chotuustad



hey
Hey what?



The current version of this standard is still only available by subscription to IEC, and there's still a potential issue, if someone mis-identifies something on a drawing and is injured (or killed) as a result.



hence the Z issue of drawings for the O&Ms has a symbol legend and all the drawings i issue for O&Ms has a clear statement that the legend drawing must be referred to. Any competent facilities management person should posses the skills and knowledge to read the legend before working.

that said I agree that the symbols should not be subscription only and standardised across industry .
 21 December 2011 10:27 PM
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gkenyon

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Originally posted by: subaqua
hence the Z issue of drawings for the O&Ms has a symbol legend and all the drawings i issue for O&Ms has a clear statement that the legend drawing must be referred to. Any competent facilities management person should posses the skills and knowledge to read the legend before working.



that said I agree that the symbols should not be subscription only and standardised across industry .
Does the inclusion of your "legend" therefore mean these drawings may not be complying with the IEC standard symbols (or alternatively, the relevant BS / EN standards, where they exist for specific types of systems/equipment, such as P&ID, integrated "intelligent buildings" front end, etc.) ?

I don't necessarily follow the logic, that you can use a symbol to mean something different (maybe counter-intuitive), and rely on the fact there's a "legend" therefore it's the maintenance engineer's fault.

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
 23 December 2011 10:05 AM
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subaqua

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Originally posted by: gkenyon

Originally posted by: subaqua

hence the Z issue of drawings for the O&Ms has a symbol legend and all the drawings i issue for O&Ms has a clear statement that the legend drawing must be referred to. Any competent facilities management person should posses the skills and knowledge to read the legend before working.







that said I agree that the symbols should not be subscription only and standardised across industry .
Does the inclusion of your "legend" therefore mean these drawings may not be complying with the IEC standard symbols (or alternatively, the relevant BS / EN standards, where they exist for specific types of systems/equipment, such as P&ID, integrated "intelligent buildings" front end, etc.) ?



I don't necessarily follow the logic, that you can use a symbol to mean something different (maybe counter-intuitive), and rely on the fact there's a "legend" therefore it's the maintenance engineer's fault.


the correct symbols are used where one exists for the item of equipment, sadly some of the "engineers" used by consultants we get novated to use, don't use the correct symbols on drawings hence a legend is issued . The document control department see there was a legend drawing at construction stage and demand a legend for O&M purposes. have spent many a rainy saturday afternoon redlining incorrect symbols off consultant drawings prior to Z issue ASBs being produced. 1st thing i was taught when looking for a fault was to read the drawings and symbol legend just to be sure and to not assume anything is as it should be.
 23 December 2011 05:10 PM
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gkenyon

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Originally posted by: subaqua
the correct symbols are used where one exists for the item of equipment, sadly some of the "engineers" used by consultants we get novated to use, don't use the correct symbols on drawings hence a legend is issued . The document control department see there was a legend drawing at construction stage and demand a legend for O&M purposes. have spent many a rainy saturday afternoon redlining incorrect symbols off consultant drawings prior to Z issue ASBs being produced. 1st thing i was taught when looking for a fault was to read the drawings and symbol legend just to be sure and to not assume anything is as it should be.
When you say "Correct", how do you know they are "correct" without subscribing to the IEC60617 database, and procuring the relevant standards for P&ID, Fire Alarms, etc?

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
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