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Topic Title: Positive discrimination towards women in engineering
Topic Summary: A debate on the issues surrounding the efforts by the IET and other organisations to attract women to engineering
Created On: 03 July 2009 04:54 PM
Status: Read Only
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 03 January 2010 10:54 AM
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jencam

Posts: 608
Joined: 06 May 2007

Originally posted by: westonpa
What sort of incentives, other than the existing terms and conditions and chance to educate young people, do you think would entice suitably knowledgeable people away from their current career/job into teaching?


1. If a suitable subject exists in the curriculum.

2. If a sufficient number of schools and colleges teach the subject.

3. If the government, head teachers, and school governors are interested in employing people from an industrial background rather than those who have gone through conventional teacher training courses.

4. If incentives existed for schools and colleges to employ NQTs with industrial backgrounds rather than time served teachers with years of classroom experience.

5. If suitable teacher training courses can be created for people previously employed in industry who are likely to have families to support and mortgages to pay.
 03 January 2010 11:33 AM
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westonpa

Posts: 1771
Joined: 10 October 2007

Originally posted by: jencam

1. If a suitable subject exists in the curriculum.


This would definitely be required and I think they would have to keep the subject on the books for a while because it may take time for the numbers taking it to build up.

2. If a sufficient number of schools and colleges teach the subject.


I suspect there would need to be some sort of trial run first.

3. If the government, head teachers, and school governors are interested in employing people from an industrial background rather than those who have gone through conventional teacher training courses.


If those from an industrial background have their degree then they should be able to do the 6 - 12 months (standard or fastrack as appropriate) teacher training course. However I am not an expert on the teacher training requirements and I guess there would need to be some consideration given for the possible lack of classroom practical experience.

4. If incentives existed for schools and colleges to employ NQTs with industrial backgrounds rather than time served teachers with years of classroom experience.


I think the incentives should be to find the best person for the job......my guess is that this is not always the case these days because often we hear of teachers who teach classes they are not qualified for.....in fact my sister does it quite often. So maybe there is a need for a review of this area anyway.

5. If suitable teacher training courses can be created for people previously employed in industry who are likely to have families to support and mortgages to pay.


I am quite sure there are plenty of 'industry' people, and even a few without mortgages to pay and families to support, who could become teachers if your points 1 to 4 were implemented.

Regards.
 03 January 2010 12:56 PM
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jencam

Posts: 608
Joined: 06 May 2007

Originally posted by: westonpa
This would definitely be required and I think they would have to keep the subject on the books for a while because it may take time for the numbers taking it to build up.


GCSEs are available in a diverse range of subjects. Many of which are rarely offered in state schools. If a course exists complete with examinations and qualifications then it is a different matter when it comes to deployment than a course which doesn't exist or is not suitable for large scale deployment.

I suspect there would need to be some sort of trial run first.


Even positive outcomes of a trial run does not imply that a new subject will become popular on a national basis. What matters is whether schools themselves are interested in teaching the subject and a budget is available.

Electronics courses in schools have been dying quietly over the past 10 or so years because of budgets and lack of interest by the head teachers and school governors.

If those from an industrial background have their degree then they should be able to do the 6 - 12 months (standard or fastrack as appropriate) teacher training course. However I am not an expert on the teacher training requirements and I guess there would need to be some consideration given for the possible lack of classroom practical experience.

I think the incentives should be to find the best person for the job......my guess is that this is not always the case these days because often we hear of teachers who teach classes they are not qualified for.....in fact my sister does it quite often. So maybe there is a need for a review of this area anyway.


The head teachers and governors of most schools have an overwhelming desire to appoint time served experienced teachers for exotic subjects, or subjects that are new to the school which require new teachers, rather than NQTs who are highly knowledgeable. I think it has something to do with the way that teacher grading works. If a school introduced a new subject and had the choice of using an experienced teacher with a weaker knowledge of the subject or a NQT with a stronger knowledge of the subject, then most would pick the former.

I am quite sure there are plenty of 'industry' people, and even a few without mortgages to pay and families to support, who could become teachers if your points 1 to 4 were implemented.


I'm not so sure. Anybody designing training courses catering for over 30 year olds should assume that most have families to support and mortgages to pay.
 04 January 2010 11:55 AM
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westonpa

Posts: 1771
Joined: 10 October 2007

Originally posted by: jencam

The head teachers and governors of most schools have an overwhelming desire to appoint time served experienced teachers for exotic subjects, or subjects that are new to the school which require new teachers, rather than NQTs who are highly knowledgeable. I think it has something to do with the way that teacher grading works. If a school introduced a new subject and had the choice of using an experienced teacher with a weaker knowledge of the subject or a NQT with a stronger knowledge of the subject, then most would pick the former.


You make a valid point and I also think head teachers are more comfortable and secure in appointing fellow teachers because they followed a similar career path and thus they understand them. I will not hold my breath waiting for the relevant people to encourage NQT's with industry knowledge into teaching in schools.

Regards.
 01 September 2011 11:56 AM
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Engineeringexcellence

Posts: 1
Joined: 01 September 2011

Perhaps the gender divide is starting to break down as this story highlight Link removed/8979.htm

The fact that this is happening in India of all countries does act as evidence that this is perhaps happening on a global scale.
Statistics

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