Roy,

You may may believe that the IET is the more inclusive, however that is correct to a point. Yes it accepts IEng and Eng Tech as members but then that is all. I would say it is merely a token gesture.

What is IET doing to encourage membership at grades other than CEng - nothing. As previously stated the University Network is working well - perhaps this model should be roled out to the other areas.

As a mere member who has gone through the traditional engineering route it looks like the IET is more focussed on the academic route rather than alternative ones - traditional apprenticeships or college based training. What engagement is there with colleges and engineering employers.

I know of employers who struggled to get engineering apprentices because of the long held belief that to be recognised as an enginer a University degree is essential. I am not seeing IET doing anything to dispell this myth.

The SOE sent a circular to all Eng Tech members pushing IEng and encouraging them to get in touch with the Membership Team to determine if they would be able to atain IEng. IET is content to sit back.

That said said in 4 weeks it looks like I will no longer be a member of this "Exclusive Old Boys Club".

Jim Harden

Roy, tried to send you a private message but the system will not allow it.

Jim Harden

Jim,

If your argument is that IET didn't support the Engineering Council "proud to be IEng" campaign well enough then I agree. You should have received an e-mail from IET and dozens of IEng members who did, sent messages of support or volunteered to champion IEng in their workplace. Hundreds could and should have been engaged, so "could do better" is my report on that one.

I don't know much about the SOE, but wish them well in their efforts focussed strongly on Eng Tech & IEng. Looking at the numbers of professional registrants from IET and SOE is perhaps an illustration of their respective character. For example when compared to the IET the SOE has circa 1% of the number of Chartered Engineers, 20% of the Incorporated Engineers and 75% of the Engineering Technicians. From this it would be reasonable to expect that Eng Tech and IEng members were more influential within that institution.

From the IET perspective our principles are inclusive and multi-disciplinary, which makes us a very broad church indeed. If we see professional institutions as "clubs" of very similar types people each with its place in the "social hierarchy" then we are turning the clock back quite a long way. Should today's new apprentice have to change institutions several times if their career takes them to Incorporated and/or Chartered Engineer? Because for a significant proportion this is a very likely outcome.

If the IET is falling short of its inclusive principles in practice, by not appealing sufficiently to Technicians and Incorporated Engineers or providing the right opportunities to them as existing members, then action is needed.
Members who have ideas and/or energy to create such actions will find that it is the quality of their argument and extent of their commitment that earns the respect of other IET Members.

Clearly you have a perfect right to take your loyalties where you choose. The evidence basis for some of your assertions is pretty dubious, but I think that the IET does need constructive criticism from IEng & Eng Tech members to ensure that it doesn't get "lazy" and think only CEng, global knowledge leadership etc. It is perfectly possible to be a world leading professional society and source of knowledge, at the same time as supporting apprentices, students, technicians and engineers in all the varieties we have as members.

I reiterate my earlier offer to challenge any instances of undervaluing IEng (or Technician) members where I am provided with credible evidence.

I am not sure about the private message option problem but ring Stevenage reception and they will give you my regular e-mail. Posting it on-line attracts spam-bots.

-------------------------
Roy Bowdler IEng FIET FCIPD
IET Registration & Standards

It seems to me that the IET has most probably been the least active of the PEI's in the IEng marketing campaign. Some of the other Institutes have issued press releases which have been picked up in the trade journals etc., but the IET has been very quiet, and the website has had not featured anything at all. The omission an IEng in the 'Meet our Members' area of the website is a further indication of how low IEng is, on the IET's agenda.

Roy,

By your own admission the IET did not support the IEng campaign. WHY!!!! I am sure you can give many reasons or excuses but I am sure the answer is Snobbery.

I am an Eng Tech keen to gain IEng but when I contacted Membership I was informed that as I did posess the necesary Academic qualifications I could not be considered - my crime is I only hold an ONC. When I spoke to SOE they did a quick check of my career history and then advised me on how to achieve IEng.

As for SOE championing Eng Tech and IEng thy are more successful than IET because they treat them with respect. As for the % it is easy to the IET "target market"

Perhaps we should be encouraging all Eng Tech and IENG members to transfer to SOE



Jim

Roy,

Jim's comments about the apparent different standards for IEng in the IET and SOE worry me. I was under the impression that the standards were set by the engineering council and not the institutions/societies.

-------------------------
Clive Maude
Honorary Secretary
Mersey and Western Cheshire Network

I don't know how long ago the enquiry was made about transferring from Eng Tech to IEng, but for several years this has been "competence" not "qualification" based. Members have regularly achieved both IEng & CEng with a variety of qualifications including ONC where their professional achievements prove their ability. There are also members with good university degrees who are registered as Technicians because thier professional achievements have been as a technician.

All licenced institutions should assess to a substantially similar standard but each has autonomy to do this in their own way, within the rules set out and audited by Engineering Council. The same principle applies to university degrees

-------------------------
Roy Bowdler IEng FIET FCIPD
IET Registration & Standards

Edited: 02 December 2011 at 09:14 AM by roybowdler

Roy,

I began to "map" my career history against the IEng Matrix. With over 30 years experience in a numbers of roles/responsibilities I was able to demonstrate that I met the competences required. However IET still stuck to the academic qualification criteria.

I am now progressing through SOE.

Jim

Jim, please see my PM!

Regards,

-------------------------
David Parr BSc.CEng MIET
PRA

I don't know nowadays an ONC can get CEng status with their substantial experience. So, how about the UKSPEC requirement of an Master's degree that a candidate should possess to gain CEng qualification? I'm a bit confuse on the double standard?!

To quote from the CEng section of UK-Spec...
"Formal education is the usual, though not the only, way of
demonstrating the necessary knowledge and understanding,"
Regards,

-------------------------
David Parr BSc.CEng MIET
PRA

I have stepped back from comment for quite sometime now. Jim, if you want to resign then that is entirely up to you. there is no need to blackwash the IET in the meantime. Just leave rather than try to cause unrest because the only person that is unprofessional is you at the moment.

The IET offers as much or as little as you want to receive. Don't sit on the fence or conclude it offers little when one doesn't put anything into it. Yes, fees will increase as with any organisation. The IET are no different so should not be presumed that they are cutting members short by increased fees etc.

There have been some errors in renewal notices that are wrong, an opt in for a diary etc but there are all surface matters. Whenever I have spoken with the IET team I have had nothing but professional and courteous service from them. They do a splendid job considering the types of calls I am sure they receive.

We can all sit here and winge but what will that gain? If you want to leave the IET then do so because obviously the IET is not right for you and doesn't need or deserve this type of behaviour from what should be professional people.