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Topic Title: Is the End Nigh for Electricity Market "Rigging" Reforms for Nuclear?
Topic Summary: Top Civil Servant working on EMR resigns making way for change
Created On: 30 April 2013 10:06 AM
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 12 May 2013 05:49 PM
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westonpa

Posts: 1771
Joined: 10 October 2007

"Countries protect their national security by having adequate energy storage facilities and investing in civil emergency contingencies, not by being so consumed by paranoia that they end up blocking trade routes that benefit us all."

Why do we keep Trident then?

Protecting national security is about a whole lot more than what you suggest and some of it is not pleasant.

There is no guarantee that we will remain in the EU and so we should plan also for being out of it, and that is a sensible approach.

Regards.
 12 May 2013 06:04 PM
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jarathoon

Posts: 1041
Joined: 05 September 2004

Originally posted by: Zuiko

You've plucked random political issues out of the air, and repeatedly call people that want to leave the EU "paranoid".


My apologies I didn't mean the word in its stronger sense, i.e. the irrational fear that other people are going to harm you.

What I meant by "paranoia" is the unjustified suspicion and mistrust of "other people". e.g. Brussels based Eurocrats.

We are all guilty of this to varying small degrees. Its natural for this sort of paranoia to arise especially in the difficult economic times we currently face.

All I am saying is that we have to be aware of this tendency and try to look at the issues that may give rise to it, from many more than just one narrow perspective.

All the issues I rasied involved energy, or both energy and transport. New electricity intercconnectors may pass through the channel tunnel, so it definitely goes under the heading both.

So the point is that we are becoming more interconnected across Europe in various different ways; particularly energy distribution and supply, and transport.

I don't think this is a random process of development. I think we either want it to happen or we don't; and as with all issues we take our chance to vote at elections, as well as argue things out between elections to get our point of view across.

So do you think we should become more or less connected in terms of our energy and transport links to Continental Europe, Ireland and Iceland ?

James Arathoon

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James Arathoon
 12 May 2013 06:46 PM
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jarathoon

Posts: 1041
Joined: 05 September 2004

Originally posted by: westonpa

"Countries protect their national security by having adequate energy storage facilities and investing in civil emergency contingencies, not by being so consumed by paranoia that they end up blocking trade routes that benefit us all."



Why do we keep Trident then?



Protecting national security is about a whole lot more than what you suggest and some of it is not pleasant.



There is no guarantee that we will remain in the EU and so we should plan also for being out of it, and that is a sensible approach.



Regards.


I am only talking from a civilian perspective on economic and engineering issues. I don't know why we still have trident, I am not a defence expert. I am not suggesting we disregard our national defence, only that we should clear on what it can do for us, and what it can't.

In terms of future planning: What about the UK's future relationship with Scotland if it becomes independent?

Do we plan for putting a fence up between Scotland and England?
Do we plan to put security bases and watch towers on the new boarder? Do we check passports and or other forms of photo ID?

You might say no to all these.

However what happens if Scotland joins the Schengen Agreement via its links to Iceland and Norway etc? What should England do then? Will you still say no then?

James Arathoon



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James Arathoon
 12 May 2013 07:02 PM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19668
Joined: 23 March 2004

So do you think we should become more or less connected in terms of our energy and transport links to Continental Europe, Ireland and Iceland ?


We should actually do both - there is absolutely no reason however that the UK can't use all of of the resources at her disposal to secure energy policy in this country and export as well as import if required - in an old colonial sense, it's called having the whip hand.

Let's not forget that there are hundreds of years of gas and coal reserves still down there and not that difficult to recover and we would be mad not to exploit them.

Even the recent topping of the 400ppm marker for CO2 isn't a reason to be planning for the ue of fossil fuels, at least until we get to a point where acceptance of new nuclear makes it a credible solution in the interim term.

As the stone age didn't come to an end for a lack of stones,then developing technology will keep the lights on for future generations - which is basically what sustainability is all about

regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 12 May 2013 07:33 PM
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Zuiko

Posts: 521
Joined: 14 September 2010

So do you think we should become more or less connected in terms of our energy and transport links to Continental Europe, Ireland and Iceland ?


It's obvious that the entire world is becoming more interconnected, limiting our web of influence to Europe is almost medieval in thinking. The United Kingdom should not become reliant on energy from abroad. We should be developing British technology, engineers and technicians so that we can become as "unreliant" and self-sufficient as possible.

We have seen what happens when the gas pipes are turned off in Eastern Europe; or when there is instability in the oil producing countries - huge (unsustainable) hikes in fuel bills.


I consider it common sense for Britain to follow a policy of British Power Generation, for British consumers. I'd go further, why rely on Europe selling us energy? A better situation would be for us to sell Europe energy.

One of the more attractive policies for Scottish voters is the potential for Scotland to be energy-self-sufficient and also be a net exporter. Granted, Scotland has an enviably low population; and with the correct (self) governance, could do well, as Norway does (who are also outside the EU).



To take the argument to extremis - Japan, Australia, Canada, USA, China - obviously none of them are in the EU;

- yet we have no problems trading with these nations. Our homes and garages and workplaces are full of goods from these nations; and we import huge amounts of resources from them. Treating Europe as a special case that demands deeper and deeper political integration does not make sense and is unnattractive to many in Britain who do not benefit from such a union.

Edited: 12 May 2013 at 11:37 PM by Zuiko
 12 May 2013 07:39 PM
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Zuiko

Posts: 521
Joined: 14 September 2010

James,
What happens *IF* Scotland decides to leave the United Kingdom will be a protracted, expensive divorce, and impact British Energy companies like SSE that have extensive operations in Scotland (and their head office); but with a majority of metered customers in the south-east of England.

Scotland's new border policies will be as they see fit; there may well be border check points and passport checks if the new United Kingdom and Scotland have different policies - but this is getting away from the debate at hand - energy.





for what it is worth (my opinion)
Scotland voting to leave the United Kingdom in 2014 - unlikely
United Kingdom leaving the EU (in the event of a vote) - likely

Edited: 12 May 2013 at 07:52 PM by Zuiko
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