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Topic Title: Areva / Alstom Relays
Topic Summary: Protection Issue
Created On: 28 April 2011 12:53 PM
Status: Read Only
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 28 April 2011 12:53 PM
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frenchiejack

Posts: 22
Joined: 25 July 2008

Hello

I have a problem where I have recored the details from a CDG31 Alstom protection relay and when I have come to use the Amtech software to display the protection curve its asks me to specify the 'tset' value of 1.3 or 3??

I could not find this on the device itself and am concerned to what the value should be??

Please could someone with the background knowlege further advise.

Kind Regards
Frenchie
 28 April 2011 04:14 PM
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sfchew

Posts: 589
Joined: 10 December 2002

CDG 31 is a normal inverse relay. At 10 times it should be 3 seconds.

Regards
Chris Chew
 04 May 2011 09:19 PM
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mlee1066

Posts: 21
Joined: 03 December 2007

The CDG 31 relay is most commonly found as a standard inverse curve with a tripping time of 3 sec at 10 times current setting. However, a 1.3 sec relay was produced. Amtech gets it right this time.

If you have access to the relay, there is normally a curve on the inside of the case which will tell you which version you have.
 26 May 2011 08:28 AM
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frenchiejack

Posts: 22
Joined: 25 July 2008

Thanks mlee1066

Unfortunately I did not notice this details whilst I was onsite and do not have the luxury of obtaining further access.

Is there any way that the t-set figure can be determined from the relay's serial number which is CDG31EG2541JA5??

Please Advise.
 26 May 2011 12:30 PM
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ArthurHall

Posts: 735
Joined: 25 July 2008

From my crib sheet
C current
D induction disk
G General use
3 no of units
1 characteristic
E case size
G flush horizontal mounting
the rest is the serial no

The characteristic 1 could reffer to 1.3 or it could be the first or most common characteristic

perhaps a phone call to areva my be more enlighting
 27 May 2011 02:13 PM
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williamjohn

Posts: 178
Joined: 22 November 2010

Hello Frenchie
My GEC relay book has a graph for CDG11 and CDG13 relays showing time to trip at TMS (time multiplier setting) 0.2. Hence multiply these times by 5 for time at maximum TMS 1.0.

The graph shows CDG11 relay
2x current setting, t = 2 seconds
3x current setting, t = 1.26 seconds
5x current setting, t = 0.86 seconds
7x current setting, t = 0.72 seconds

CDG13 relay (very inverse relay)
1.7x current setting, t = 5 seconds
2x current setting, t = 3.3 seconds
3x current setting, t = 1.3 seconds
5x current setting, t= 0.53 seconds
7x current setting, t = 0.38 seconds

The graphs show t =0 above 7x current setting, perhaps due to an instantaneous relay which can be incorporated in the IDMT case. One curve shows this occurring at 20 x current setting.

Best wishes, John
 28 May 2011 09:58 AM
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williamjohn

Posts: 178
Joined: 22 November 2010

Hello Frenchie
Another graph in the GEC relay book is titled "... characteristics of 3 seconds standard IDMT relay". The curve is the same as the curve for a CDG11 relay.

At 10 x setting, the CDG11 relay at TMS 1.0, trip time = 3 seconds
At 10 x setting, the CDG13 relay at TMS 1.0, trip time = 1.5 seconds

Thus combined with Arthur's posting, it would appear that your CDG31 relay is a 3 second relay.
There is also a CDG14 "extremely inverse overcurrent relay".
Best wishes, John
 02 June 2011 12:40 AM
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mlee1066

Posts: 21
Joined: 03 December 2007

I've had a look at the CDG 31 relay leaflet and there doesn't appear to be any easy way of telling which type you have.

If it is not possible to visit the site again, I think that you have to presume that it is a 3 sec relay as they are far more common.

Alternatively, try each type in Amtech. Maybe the co-ordination with other relays may lead you to rule out one version.

Sorry I can't be of more use.

Regards.

Originally posted by: frenchiejack

Thanks mlee1066



Unfortunately I did not notice this details whilst I was onsite and do not have the luxury of obtaining further access.



Is there any way that the t-set figure can be determined from the relay's serial number which is CDG31EG2541JA5??



Please Advise.
 06 June 2011 07:44 AM
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frenchiejack

Posts: 22
Joined: 25 July 2008

Thanks Guys

Appreciate your consultation.

Frenchie
 16 August 2011 05:13 AM
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takaru

Posts: 1
Joined: 16 August 2011

Hi all . I am Tuan and I from Vietnam . Now I need manual of relay CDG31 and CDD21 of alstom . Please help me . Thanks ALL
 16 August 2011 11:36 PM
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mlee1066

Posts: 21
Joined: 03 December 2007

Send me your email address (PM), and I will send them to you.

Originally posted by: takaru

Hi all . I am Tuan and I from Vietnam . Now I need manual of relay CDG31 and CDD21 of alstom . Please help me . Thanks ALL
 08 September 2013 03:02 PM
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ARIJIT24

Posts: 2
Joined: 08 September 2013

Could you please send me the manual of the following relays:

1. cdg61
2. cag14

regards,
Arijit Chatterjee
 08 September 2013 03:03 PM
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ARIJIT24

Posts: 2
Joined: 08 September 2013

my email id is:

arijitch24@hotmail.com
 09 September 2013 10:59 PM
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AdrianWint

Posts: 247
Joined: 25 May 2006

Suggest you look on the Alstom Transmission & Distribution website. You'll find all the manuals there, old & new.
 17 November 2013 06:56 PM
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neil.cameron

Posts: 3
Joined: 14 December 2007

Hi AdrianWint, could you post a link to the Alstom T&D document site. I have spent some time looking but have failed to find a link for the "old" legacy documents.

Neil
 18 November 2013 12:30 AM
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JonathanHill

Posts: 225
Joined: 09 September 2002

Neil,
You could try the Schneider website - they took on the Distribution side of what had been variously Areva/ Alstom/ GEC Alsthom/ GEC/ AEI etc. I don't know what support they're offering to these legacy products, though.

Regards

-------------------------
Jonno
 30 December 2013 08:28 PM
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neil.cameron

Posts: 3
Joined: 14 December 2007

Hi Guys, Sorry for the delay in replying.
I found the info I required on the inside, back of the relay. I had tried the various websites (Areva/ Alstom/ GEC Alsthom/ GEC/ AEI etc) but failed. Hopefully I now have the info I need, from the various posts

Below is what I have gathered so far mainly from this site

C current
D induction disk
G General use
3 no of units
1 characteristic
E case size
G flush horizontal mounting

SI
The graph shows CDG11 relay
2x current setting, t = 2 seconds
3x current setting, t = 1.26 seconds
5x current setting, t = 0.86 seconds
7x current setting, t = 0.72 seconds

VI
CDG13 relay (very inverse relay)
1.7x current setting, t = 5 seconds
2x current setting, t = 3.3 seconds
3x current setting, t = 1.3 seconds
5x current setting, t= 0.53 seconds
7x current setting, t = 0.38 seconds

EI
CDG34 Extremely Inverse
2x = 18s
3x = 6 (dead)
4x = 3.25
5x = 2.1
6x = 1.4
10x = 0.6

Neil
 31 December 2013 10:05 AM
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mlee1066

Posts: 21
Joined: 03 December 2007

The operating time for a standard inverse relay (with a TM of 1.0) are 10s at 2x the setting and 3s at 10x.

The times for a VI relay are 13.5s and 1.5s at 2x and 10x and for a EI relay, 26.6s and 0.8s.

Edited: 31 December 2013 at 12:26 PM by mlee1066
 13 March 2014 12:33 AM
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markstockton

Posts: 1
Joined: 25 July 2008

Hi People,
The best place to get full details of the model build up of this CDG relay is by contacting Alstom Grid who are the manufacturers of these devices (still being made and sold). In fact all of the "old" electromechanical devices that were in the AREVA protection portfolio are now under the stewardship of Alstom Grid (from the same factory in Stafford, UK). Jonno's comment above only really applies to primary plant and not really for protection relays.
If you send the full model number to contact.centre@alstom.com, or following the links on www.alstom.com/grid/contact-us/ they will be able to provide you all the information on this particular device, and any documentation you may need.
Enjoy.
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