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Topic Title: metal lamp double insulated any product designers please
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Created On: 12 December 2011 08:53 PM
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 12 December 2011 08:53 PM
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tothetop

Posts: 41
Joined: 04 November 2010

Hi guys

I have a desk lamp solid bronze with grass lamp holder cable feeding lamp is twin.
the cable enters the lamp via a plastic gland rising through fitting into brass lamp holder which is lined with card.
I my self would say this arrangement has been carried out to make it double insulated but there is no label stating this is there any requirement that this lamp does not meet.I have contacted the supplier but as of this time had no reply.
 12 December 2011 10:32 PM
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gkenyon

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There are metal-cased double-insulated products.

I understand that some of the first popular appliances to be properly recognised as "double insulated" in the UK were vacuum cleaners from Hoover (1334 Junior and 652 Senior, if memory serves me correctly, very early machines of both models originally being earthed): both of these models had metal cases for many many years' production.

Are you sure there's a real issue: need to talk to the manufacturer about concerns in the first instance?

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
 13 December 2011 08:10 AM
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dougflorence

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Is this a modern lamp that you have just bought or is it an old one?
Are you concerned about your personal safety or will you be selling these lamps to the public?
If it is a modern lamp it should have a CE marking and, if double insulated, the square in square logo, plus some other requirements to conform with the Low Voltage Directive.
If you have bought the lamp recently and you feel that it does not conform to EU requirements you should contact your local council trading standards department.
 13 December 2011 09:12 AM
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gkenyon

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Originally posted by: dougflorence

Is this a modern lamp that you have just bought or is it an old one?

Are you concerned about your personal safety or will you be selling these lamps to the public?

If it is a modern lamp it should have a CE marking and, if double insulated, the square in square logo, plus some other requirements to conform with the Low Voltage Directive.

If you have bought the lamp recently and you feel that it does not conform to EU requirements you should contact your local council trading standards department.
Agreed.

However, there is a "presumption of conformity" in the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations (UK implemntation of LVD), i.e. unless there are reasonable grounds to assume the provisions have been met, then it is assumed everything is A-OK !

Marvelous legislation!

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
 13 December 2011 09:36 AM
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dougflorence

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Misconception of what "Presumption of Conformity" means I think.

It means that a manufacturer can presume that their equipment is in conformity with the requirements of a Directive if it completely meets all the requirements of a Harmonised Standard for that Directive. Assessing compliance with standards would normally involve some lab testing to check insulation withstand voltages, surface touch temperatures, flammability etc.

There is no presumption implied for purchasers.

I am not an expert on LVD so I would not want to say what standard is relevant here, but briefly looking in the LVD harmonised standards there are quite a few on luminaires.

Domestic purchasers have a reasonable expectation that a CE marking means that equipment will be safe, but distributors to retail suppliers and users covered by HSAWA have a duty to ensure that Equipment is safe, so they should assess whether a CE marking is credible and justified.

The CE marking regime is designed to not pose excessive burdens on responsible manufacturers. It provides a useful framework to define what is currently considered acceptable in the EU market. Sadly there are plenty of irresponsible, incompetent and ignorant manufacturers about; especially on the other side of the globe.
 13 December 2011 10:21 AM
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gkenyon

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Originally posted by: dougflorence

Misconception of what "Presumption of Conformity" means I think.


It means that a manufacturer can presume that their equipment is in conformity with the requirements of a Directive if it completely meets all the requirements of a Harmonised Standard for that Directive. Assessing compliance with standards would normally involve some lab testing to check insulation withstand voltages, surface touch temperatures, flammability etc.
And this was re-worded in 1994: my apologies. Now this is definitely clarified, and only applies where there are no Harmonized Standards (which is definitely not the case for lamps).




There is no presumption implied for purchasers.
Purchasers wouldn't know and should at first be directed to the retailer or manufacturer, only back to TS if they are not satisfied with the results of those initial enquiries?



I am not an expert on LVD so I would not want to say what standard is relevant here, but briefly looking in the LVD harmonised standards there are quite a few on luminaires.



Domestic purchasers have a reasonable expectation that a CE marking means that equipment will be safe, but distributors to retail suppliers and users covered by HSAWA have a duty to ensure that Equipment is safe, so they should assess whether a CE marking is credible and justified.



The CE marking regime is designed to not pose excessive burdens on responsible manufacturers. It provides a useful framework to define what is currently considered acceptable in the EU market. Sadly there are plenty of irresponsible, incompetent and ignorant manufacturers about; especially on the other side of the globe.
The product may not carry a CE Mark. UK permits the CE Mark to be placed in a prominent position on the instructions or packaging, so may well be discarded.

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
 14 December 2011 07:06 PM
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tothetop

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thanks for your replies

the lamp is an existing lamp that has been bought and as far as the customer know is as bought,there is no double insulated sticker

I am STILL waiting for a coment from the supplier

cheers
 14 December 2011 07:46 PM
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gkenyon

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If no response and/or you are still unhappy, you can call Consumer Direct for further advice.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl...ghtscontacts/DG_195948

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Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
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