There is also the question whether the exponential rise in the number of graduates (mainly in 'easy' subjects or humanities) has devalued degrees in 'difficult' subjects such as physics or engineering. You hear that graduates are ten a penny nowadays compared with in the past but there were more graduates in certain degree subjects 10 or 20 years ago than this year.



Are traditional degrees or training courses the better solution for creating engineers of the future? Don't forget that engineering is just as much a creative subject as it is an academic subject meaning that that ideas, innovation, and aesthetics are just as important components as the theory behind the functionality in any finished engineering product.



Do qualifications resulting from once up to date but now outdated subject material have any value other than being a piece of paper?



Is this a very specific example of some 'high-calibre' engineering with few vacancies or is it representative of much of the engineering industry?

Dear Jencam

I can see your reasoning.

In a discussion string "comparing qualifications" which for consideration of all respected colleagues here, there are several debates ongoing in forums from Institute of Directors to technical sector groups also on linkedin. Thought of my post was to share information for perspective that once industry sought after qualifications such as HND's have become misrepresented. In balance at same time many technical degree's of today are not recognised or accredited by professional engineering institutions due at lack of rigor in certain areas. Comparison of qualifications is these days is more difficult:

UK market: Comparison of qualifications has been made more complex with introduction of different regional education frameworks for reference: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/...ntries_2008.PDF


International: Today we also operate in international markets, graduates and engineers competing with degrees from countries where study can be more technically demanding or not. A Engineering degree in Italy or Germany is typically 5 years study with no half way house. Likewise in US there are extremely technically demanding degrees, also ones of two years part time study.

Law: Factors such as introduction in UK of corporate manslaughter law has driven employers to manage risk by demonstrating for many jobs that employees are technically competent, which drives them to seek employees with higher foundation qualifications and mutual record of skills update for job in question.

Solution? If in answer to market conditions above professional institutions such as our own have positioning to look more on CPD in assessment of candidates for professional registration, encourage members to stay abreast of technologies and see IET as a professional network and career "home for life" perhaps we should not worry to much about debate of comparing qualifications.

Regards
Mark

Edited: 17 July 2010 at 08:01 AM by magarratt

I think the value of a degree as with any training is for the individual person to decide, i.e., is it worth something to them. One person may get a lot from a top engineering degree whereas I know some people do not and yet others may get a lot from a media studies degree whereas others do not. The value of something is not just related to getting a good job....work and life balance is becoming more important.

That said of course some people invest their time and money and do not get their just rewards at the end of it and thus for them their degree may not seem to be of value. I think the real problem in all this is that training providers, career advisors and the last government mislead many young people and sold them a story about 'go get yourself and degree and you will do very well', i.e., like it was the be all and end all of everything. Qualifications are just that and in my opinion it was the advice coming from supposed reliable sources which was poor. If we tell young people realistically and honestly about their degree choices and where they may or may not lead then they can make their own decisions and have a better idea of how things may work out....we hope.

Regards.

Something that has to be taken into account (that doesn't seem to click with many people) is that education and qualifications are two completely different things in practice.

Holding qualifications does not necessarily mean one is educated because the course material leading to the qualifications could be out of date or poor quality, and to achieve high grades in exams or assignments means having to study the material regardless of what it is. Anything else is not a method to gain the qualification! My son holds an A grade computing A Level but was quite disappointed with the course material being dated, biased, and failing to cover many applications of computers. He was also disappointed to a lesser extent with the A Level maths course material.

On the other hand, it is perfectly possible for somebody to learn modern high quality information either outside of educational institutions or on taught or research courses that do not lead to well recognised / valued qualifications.

It is well worth reading job adverts. Those for the vast majority of engineer's jobs ask for a degree, very often "1st or 2.1". This may not be what the job needs, but the HR department are likely to reject any CVs that don't meet these requirements. Personally I certainly haven't noticed many that look for Master's.

It is not about the education required, it's about how to reduce 50-100 applications to a short list. On th other hand, advertising for a Master's may result in too few applicants.

It is possible to get an engineer's job without a degree, but unless you are very lucky you will need to both have a superb track record and be excellent at selling yourself. And even then you need to be aware that most employers will reject you out of hand.

-------------------------
Andy Millar CEng MIET MCMI

http://www.linkedin.com/in/millarandy

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