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Topic Title: Workings of Electroconvulsive Therapy or Electric Shock Treatment
Topic Summary: Any-one explain why Health care allows electric shocking of patients
Created On: 12 July 2009 05:27 PM
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 12 July 2009 05:27 PM
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Leesome

Posts: 24
Joined: 25 July 2008

Several years ago I were unfortunate to be in a situation that led to a stay within a Mental Health Hospital. Although never denied to being a confused person, much of what the professionals advised just failed to hold as fact.

My opinion was twisted into part of a problems, & were already at the point where health care professionals had taken away all my rights; they could make the decision.

Discussion took place with close family - verbal (feel an unprofessional) approach given: a family member requested give consent to the use of Electroconvulsive Therapy or ECT.

The incident that happened several years ago, truly put a large amoungt of stress & fear upon my-self: least not that with every-day the shrinks are proven wrong.

Questions
1) How exactly does ECT work?
2) Application of 800ma to the brain, across and through must surely be calculated prior?
3) Hydration? consumption of large volume water, also alter those calculations?
4) No where is this to be found. "Electric shock is safe"
5) IET, has no answer, why should IET, allow this?

My own thoughts are that sine wave ECT, most certainly caused brain damage; like a cheese wire affect, as electrons pull together and attain shortest route; this is via the brain.

IET, boasts proud of the fact "never stop learning", how could inducing memory lose help my career!

Views any-one?
 14 July 2009 04:38 PM
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rogerbryant

Posts: 863
Joined: 19 July 2002

I can't answer all your questions, but a few points.

1) No one is sure how ECT works. It's origins were in historic times using electric eels or similar. The basic idea is to produce a type of epileptic fit which has been shown to give an improvement in certain, not all, depresive patients. There is information and a display on this in the museum on the Glenside Campus of the University of the West of England in Bristol. (This site was formally a mental hospital).

4) Different rules and guidelines are applied to medical treatments where many hazardous techniques are used but the benefit is considered to outweigh the risk. Surgery, radiotherapy for cancer or even X-rays come into this catagory.
The radiation dose administered for cancer is orders of magnitude greater than that allowed to the general public or in industry and a CT scan also delivers a signifcant dose of radiation.

Best regards

Roger
 15 July 2009 06:56 PM
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IanDarney

Posts: 32
Joined: 18 January 2003

There is plenty of information on the subject of Electroconvulsive Therapy at the Wikipedia website. Just visit http://en.wikipedia.org
and enter the word 'electroshock' in the Search box.

The introductory text contains the excerpt:
'Informed consent is a standard of modern electroconvulsive therapy. Involuntary treatment is uncommon in countries that follow contemporary standards and is typically only used when the use of ECT is believed to be potentially life saving'

Ian Darney
 17 July 2009 10:41 AM
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Leesome

Posts: 24
Joined: 25 July 2008

Come on Membership give me some facts. How could electric shock of almost 1 ampere be of benefit. May as well kick me between the legs - do not mean phases.

ECT, was taken from a pig slaughter house, Rome 1930s, since the swine never died (least we believe), yet they took 125 volts from a wall socket, this via the temporal area. Two shrinks having seen the prongs in action, went back and built their own version, tehy then shocked cats, sheep,ect, tuning the machine until would not cause loss of life, at least in a majority of animals.

Then used on humans, the violent spasms, intension of the shock in many cases caused death, broken bones and a lot of pain. These days a patient is given a muscle paralyser: whats the point when you remove the convulsion? only be mild-severe brain damge. All non-sense when depression ect is only pressure, environment, mental block or all three as in own case diet. Changed all and have had no issues, what if they had got their way, could have been a walking vegetable.

ECT is hardly a science, average electrician build a machine, try dismantling a strobe, not much difference.

Seeking senior IET members -
tell me the machine is safe? None of my calculations nor investigations conclude pulse current or constant sine wave of several hundred volts up to 900ma is any-thing but that except of brain damage.

Seen people leave a ECT suite, fear is enough to make you say no. Scary truth is they could have forced this on my-self, informed consent is a myth, least within Scotland. Out of order NHS, force this when they cannot explain the workings. More afronted wasn't suffering depression nor even close to a depressive mood. Just too many hours in my day, and a day could stretch for several with no sleep.

ECT, machine is regulated at MHRA. Seeking a professional high within IET, explain this machine; brain damages people... Has killed millions over the decades. Electricity on the body, no thanks, across the brain, are you mad!

Edited: 17 July 2009 at 11:09 AM by Leesome
 18 July 2009 10:50 AM
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IanDarney

Posts: 32
Joined: 18 January 2003

Electric Shock Therapy

The information provided by Mr Leesome in his postings of 12 July and 17 July 'Workings of Electroconvulsive Therapy or Electric Shock' is very disturbing. It seems that the National Health Service is continuing to forcibly subject mental health patients to Electric Shock Treatment. The patients themselves have no say in the matter.

I had believed that this practice had been discontinued at the time we abolished Capital Punishment, and that only organisations such as the Stasi and Mossad had continued to use it.

Technology has advanced significantly since the 1950's, and many rules and regulations have been introduced on the subjects of Electromagnetic Compatibility and Functional Safety. The use of electric shock treatment involves levels of exposure which are orders of magnitude higher than the regulatory requirements.

Medical Science has also developed significantly during the past half-century. So it is reasonable to ask; why it is necessary to continue to use Electric Shock treatment on patients against their will?.

In the light of this information, it would seem logical that the IET initiate a formal investigation into the use of Electroconvulsive Therapy in the NHS.

Electrical engineers are responsible for the design, manufacture, testing and maintenance of electric shock equipment. They are also partly responsible for the way it is used. It is reasonable to expect that engineers with such responsibilities should be provided with clear guidance by their professional body.

Ian Darney
 19 July 2009 02:31 PM
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Avatar for sfchew.
sfchew

Posts: 589
Joined: 10 December 2002

Spoken to a psychiatrist and was informed that ECT has demonstrated to be beneficial to the treatment of patients. The threshold is always checked to be just sufficient for Therapeutic purpose.

Regards
Chris Chew
 27 July 2009 10:23 AM
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Leesome

Posts: 24
Joined: 25 July 2008

Many thanks Ian. Agree that a senior person(s) within IET, give comment and at least investigation into this horrid machine.

As for sfchew, when your in a mental confusion, slap on the face or even kick between the phases (legs) suffice. ECT, is just that, no more than assault, except the damage is unseen and permanent if not physical then emotional. Much safer jamming my head between magnets that ampere way.

Return to the psychiatrist, end of discussion, they are not electrical designers, nor engineers, the death toll from Electric shock is statis, not only of life complete, damage caused when many a better route exist.

Sadly thou, our clinical beings cannot accept that non-clinical, maybe something to do with money & shifting state funding? Taking a machina from a pig slaughter house, sums up ECT, patient is swine. Check out the history of Psychiatry, always ends in patient hurt, grief & at worst death.

We not raise expand this further into an IET, publication, they ran a story on Polygraph, why not ECT?
 28 July 2009 09:08 AM
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rogerbryant

Posts: 863
Joined: 19 July 2002

There are a couple of references here to ECT being developed from a pig slaughter house. Where do these come from? The only historic references I can find are from Roman times using electric fish and later the use of electricity as an alternative to drugs to produce a clonic fit.

I also do not see this as an IET issue. It is an issue for the medical governing bodies in the same way that treatment doses of radiation (for cancer etc) are governed by the medical bodies not the radiation protection agencies.

Best regards

Roger Bryant
 03 August 2009 11:45 AM
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Leesome

Posts: 24
Joined: 25 July 2008

Rodger, you are correct in that radiation & electricity are external to the IET within MHRA, used in ways we do not approve of at least within a workplace in terms of a non-acceptance of exposure..

Radiation health care has a precise target, target is seen and be seen spreading & so eliminated...

If you except that mental illness, cannot be seen, exception of that of a confused human being, then you cannot apply an aim to any target.

Back to ECT - The original concept of that inducing a convulsion or a mere violent spasm induced via machine, more acceptable than previous Psychiatric, methods of that era.
Machine dates back to the early forties, lets not forget those former hospitals and treatments applied.

Above poster Ian Darnely, vurry correct in that IET, foremost body within field of electronic, electrical design & application & generation of electricity. Could we not ponder why ECT, never been before any IET publication or panel for scrutiny.

Tell all that ECT, does not have a cheese wire effect upon the brain, that no damage is done, display us the calculations that provide safety data to the patient at the highest dose.

IET, must have an input at some stage of this machines operation, design, manufacture or at least testing, again fact that ECT, never passed through hands IET or been discussed?
Development of ECT, if machine holds any future, should be within IET - has this ever been discussed?

As for any Psychiatrist gaining my confidence, just watch the machine at work, tell that to the millions who never walked away. Fact is electricity kills at the IET's prescibled rate of application and ECT operators are known to have lost too many knowledge networks.

We a learnng network or a forgotten network?
Above reference ECT's memory loss ability.

Leesome.

Edited: 05 August 2009 at 08:07 PM by Leesome
 12 August 2009 06:17 PM
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jencam

Posts: 608
Joined: 06 May 2007

I have been informed that adults with undiagnosed Asperger syndrome have been subjected to ECT well into the 1990s in Britain, and the practice still takes place in the US. There is no evidence that people with Asperger syndrome benefit from ECT at all.
 04 September 2009 08:15 PM
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Leesome

Posts: 24
Joined: 25 July 2008

In place exists zero evidence Electroconvulsive treatments work. Zero scientific evidence. Is basically a form of torture, over decades killed millions. The machine is past...

Why has yet a senior IET, member responded, called the IET, here is the debate, and as yet zero response. The knowledge network appears in bed, probable my knowledge isn't their knowledge. Put your pants back on IET, support brain usage & prevent brain damage.
 13 September 2009 07:55 PM
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Leesome

Posts: 24
Joined: 25 July 2008

Answer all questions, visit The Citizens Commission on Human Rights. IET shall be well known there for their uncaring
institution. Why did I leave IET. No question mark. IET, no knowledge, no vision, no network... Enjoy the island status.
 16 September 2009 07:39 PM
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Leesome

Posts: 24
Joined: 25 July 2008

All questions on founders of electric shock http://www.cchr.org.au/psychiatry.php?id=43
 08 October 2009 08:10 PM
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gandaria7001

Posts: 1
Joined: 08 October 2009

Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) is commonly called shock treatment. It has received bad press, in part for its potential memory-depleting effect. Since its introduction in the 1930s, ECT has been significantly refined, and is now considered to be the best treatment for severe depression. It is especially effective for patients with severe depression who experience delusions and hallucinations. Maintenance ECT may also help prevent relapse. In a 2000 study, continued use of ECT in responsive patients, along with long-term antidepressant use, prevented relapse in 73% of patients after 5 years compared to 18% in patients on antidepressants alone.

______________
forklift certification

Edited: 30 March 2011 at 10:23 AM by gandaria7001
 10 January 2010 09:55 PM
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Leesome

Posts: 24
Joined: 25 July 2008

gandaria7001 could you quote those stats via links. fail mention any facts. If I kicked a man between the legs, do not phases, same effects would happen. Patient also stop hallucinating, after initial squeal a calmness would arrive, maybe even induce enough fear snap poor chap out of depression, after all his chap no need for it; no depression, get it? As for claiming a kick in the $%££@ as a cure? But wait, invent a machine, and no want to worry, trust me, I'm a Doctor, oops sorry I mean Psychiatrist.
 17 October 2010 09:35 PM
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Leesome

Posts: 24
Joined: 25 July 2008

http://www.cchrint.org/videos/psa/ect/

Got some interest. On this model you do actually get to view the electricity flow.
Statistics

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