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Topic Title: Out of touch Part P
Topic Summary: Own certification
Created On: 07 August 2014 02:41 PM
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 07 August 2014 02:41 PM
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lowerexley

Posts: 5
Joined: 29 July 2014

Hi all. did my apprenticeship back in the 80's, crossover between the 14th and 15th editions(yeah I am an old git 50) in a commercial/industrial background. Did my 17th in 2010 (they put me through the course as a favour) but was in a technical engineering firm and not been "on the tools for agood 10 years. Now starting on my own, having left, I fing that the plumber I am working with seems to be more qualified to do the new installation than me. OK I'm not bitter! My local training establishment offers this course, CITY & GUILDS 2394/2395 4 days £795 +vat. Is this my only option? I thought it would be cheaper to do Part P for me to be able to self certify. I'm in west yorks btw. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou people.
 07 August 2014 03:07 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11768
Joined: 13 August 2003

If you want to belong to a (part P) Competent Persons Scheme, it might be worth checking with the various scheme operators to see what they require.

How much notifiable electrical work are you likely to do? - remember that the latest incarnation of part P has significantly reduced the amount of notifiable work. Several people on here have said recently that it would be cheaper for them to pay BC notification fees for the few jobs that include notifiable work than pay annual scheme membership fees (and associated costs).

- Andy.
 07 August 2014 04:02 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7267
Joined: 18 April 2006

"annual scheme membership fees (and associated costs)."

What associated costs are involved Andy?

Regards

BOD
 07 August 2014 04:07 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19895
Joined: 23 March 2004

Lots of books and a bookshelf to put them on I guess, BoD

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 07 August 2014 04:23 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7267
Joined: 18 April 2006

"Lots of books and a bookshelf to put them on I guess, BoD"

I'd like to think that the installer would already have the publications to be up to date

Meanwhile, after decades of looking, I've finally found an original 1st edition of 1882 and it should be with me tomorrow.

Regards

BOD
 07 August 2014 04:24 PM
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mawry

Posts: 227
Joined: 26 April 2004

Do you have them all now?
 07 August 2014 04:31 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7267
Joined: 18 April 2006

No, but I'm fairly sure I've got everything in all its variants from 1924 onwards. That's the problem with (obsessive) collecting, it isn't good enough to have say the 11th when there are 5 or more revisions, reprints and amendments of it...... One day I'll compile a list.

Regards

BOD
 07 August 2014 05:17 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11768
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What associated costs are involved Andy?

I was thinking of the lost earnings from having to take a day out for the annual (?) inspection.
- Andy.
 07 August 2014 05:36 PM
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perspicacious

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"I was thinking of the lost earnings from having to take a day out for the annual (?) inspection."

I don't think many sole traders on domestic have more than half a day and I've always viewed the visit as a personalised on site training course, but there are some contractor visits where the assessor has to spend all his time recording deviations.... That again, is training but the contractor may not view it that way

Regards

BOD
 07 August 2014 10:44 PM
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whjohnson

Posts: 750
Joined: 24 January 2009

Never bothered with Part P schemes, never had the need.
The installation owner is ultimately responsible for any notification so I leave it up to them.

-------------------------
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
 08 August 2014 08:23 AM
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tomgunn

Posts: 3250
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Originally posted by: lowerexley

Hi all. did my apprenticeship back in the 80's, crossover between the 14th and 15th editions(yeah I am an old git 50) in a commercial/industrial background. Did my 17th in 2010 (they put me through the course as a favour) but was in a technical engineering firm and not been "on the tools for agood 10 years. Now starting on my own, having left, I fing that the plumber I am working with seems to be more qualified to do the new installation than me. OK I'm not bitter! My local training establishment offers this course, CITY & GUILDS 2394/2395 4 days £795 +vat. Is this my only option? I thought it would be cheaper to do Part P for me to be able to self certify. I'm in west yorks btw. Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou people.


Hi. First off... you are bitter otherwise you wouldn't be posting this, (and you have the right to be bitter), you did your apprenticeship in the 80's? Then you're just a slip of a lad compared to me... late 60's for me... when I joined this forum I too started like you... moaning about the changing of the RYB to GGG, (grey grey grey), and really I could not see the light, (sorry - no pun intended ), as I moaned about prat P, (ho ho ho... how funny to call it 'prat P'... ho ho ho), BUT... I have backed off... i don't get involved with politics anymore... I don't get involved with looooong posts, pretty much a waste of time and resources TBH, there are many very clever people on here...read and learn my little fiend... read and learn... instead of moaning about the way our industries run.... just crack on and do your thing... don't worry about it... part P has been watered down so much it isn't really much of a problem... the good news for you lot in the Yorks district is... I hear, from very reliable sources, that very soon you'll be getting electricity fed into your actual homes next year.... so work will be plentiful!

And... relaxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Tom

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

handyTRADESMAN ... haha

Castle Builders

Why did Nick Clegg cross the road? Because he said he wouldn't!

I can resist anything..... except temptation! ( Karl Gunn ).
 08 August 2014 05:40 PM
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lowerexley

Posts: 5
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Thankyou Tom for your relaxed view on my (obvious) resentments! I just want to "do the right thing". I seem to be bogging myself down with researching options instead of doing some proper work! It's also good to hear we will be getting electricity soon, my potato powered clock and wind up radio are tiresome. What size earth bond should I use for the potato btw? Thanks
 08 August 2014 06:05 PM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19895
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It's also good to hear we will be getting electricity soon,


We're just going to lend you some as a trial - see how you get on with it

In true Yorkshire fashion, we'll be wanting it back, mind

You can probably give me a few years if you are 14th/15th - I was strickly 15th - - but you'll have done 236 Parts 1 and 2 and probably a C certificate amongst others - so other than perhaps doing something to bring your testing qulalifications up to date (what an idea, seperate qualifications for testing ) the I suggest you just crack on and earn some brass (you'll have 'leccy to pay for soon)

Good luck

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 08 August 2014 07:33 PM
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tomgunn

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Originally posted by: lowerexley

Thankyou Tom for your relaxed view on my (obvious) resentments! I just want to "do the right thing". I seem to be bogging myself down with researching options instead of doing some proper work! It's also good to hear we will be getting electricity soon, my potato powered clock and wind up radio are tiresome. What size earth bond should I use for the potato btw? Thanks


Well... I am pleased to offer you a shortcut... miss out the few years I became bitter about whats going on with the sparking industry / part P etc. It isn't worth worrying about! If I could turn the clock back to where you are you know what? I'd look for another direction to go... I applied for some papers to join the police force when I was 40 - that was a big mistake... shudda - wudda... cudda! My sons a sparks and is doing really well but I feel guilty hes doing it - he has two sparks working full time for him... NIC EIC approved contractor etc. But I feel it would be better off somewhere else... I have posted this before on this forum... even being a train driver... chuff chuff... close the engines door and go home not like working for yourself!

Anyways... the best earth for your potato powered clock... haha... would be to connect it to a row of beans... use old tea bags for manure and so you would then have the perfect TT supply, (ouch! Even at my standards... that was bad!), good spread for an earth there!

Good luck in whatever you decide to do... concentrate on you... not what others are getting up to!

This is a great forum... good people and savvy advice...

regards... Tom

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

handyTRADESMAN ... haha

Castle Builders

Why did Nick Clegg cross the road? Because he said he wouldn't!

I can resist anything..... except temptation! ( Karl Gunn ).
 08 August 2014 10:33 PM
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paulskyrme

Posts: 863
Joined: 12 February 2003

Originally posted by: perspicacious

No, but I'm fairly sure I've got everything in all its variants from 1924 onwards. That's the problem with (obsessive) collecting, it isn't good enough to have say the 11th when there are 5 or more revisions, reprints and amendments of it...... One day I'll compile a list.



Regards



BOD




Bod,
PLEASE do a list, I am trying also to collect a full set!
I know, but I don't have to explain to you I guess...
 09 August 2014 10:18 AM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7267
Joined: 18 April 2006

I'm renting an empty farm unit Paul which will have a 450 sq ft mezz as an office with at least 54 Dexion 3 x 2 shelves so I'll have a big move and sort out over the winter. I'm hoping that's enough space as I also have Private Eye back to no 11 and probably 3000 duplicates, yet alone those of Viz, Poot etc.
The project was delayed by a few months as I bought a 3 tonne two poster whose description as working was a matter of opinion, but now fully refurburbished with new load nuts and bearings sat on 2 m3 of freshly reinforced concrete.
My editions 2 to 7 are high quality copies so I'm still looking for originals (competing with JP) so will sort out my duplicates and do some trading
Meanwhile, the 1882 1st has arrived and in unread condition (like most of the editions I've bought)

Regards

BOD
 09 August 2014 04:05 PM
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sparkingchip

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You mean no one has marked it up with pencil before taking the open book 1st edition exam?

What was the first electrical qualification and when was it introduced?

Andy
 10 August 2014 10:01 AM
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stephenbiddle

Posts: 228
Joined: 18 January 2003

Having followed this thing since it came out, my conclusion is that almost none of the customers or building authorities understand it and no one is enforcing it. The best course of action is a complete boycott to force the issue, since it is dragging on wasting us all time and money.

Stephen
 10 August 2014 01:46 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7607
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Stephen

There is virtually nothing to enforce. The electrician or some other doing the work is not under any duty to notify the work or be a registered installer. The duty to comply with ADP and to notify any work that is notifiable is the responsibility of the property owner and they can choose if the wish to use a registered contractor or 3rd Party Verifier for notifiable work. Companies who are registered as a competent person don't have to use qualified staff to carry out installation work or to inspect and test the work on completion. The only duty required by ADP is for the QS to carry out the administrative task of notifying the work without any requirement to inspect the work or even to attend site.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 10 August 2014 02:04 PM
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weirdbeard

Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: John Peckham

The electrician or some other doing the work is not under any duty to notify the work



Hi John on page 10 of the part p doc, item 3.8, it says "before work begins the installer must notify a building control body"
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Out of touch Part P

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