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Topic Title: Fil pilote (F.P. ) - only for use in France
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Created On: 18 July 2014 01:27 PM
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 18 July 2014 01:27 PM
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sparkingchip

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A Warmup under floor heating controller has a Fil Pilote (F.P.) connection only for use in France, why can't we British use it?

Andy
 18 July 2014 01:46 PM
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AJJewsbury

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Just a single connection (rather than a pair)? Probably down to our prohibition on shared Ns. I've seen some French diagrams where the pilot wire (originating from their off-peak meter) is switched by an auxiliary contact on the side of the MCB that protects the ordinary circuit - presumably in an attempt to make sure that N isn't energised backwards by the FP. But that kind of approach I guess would be defeated by the good old UK fused connection unit or local (only DP) isolation. Our CUs probably aren't big enough either
- Andy.
 19 July 2014 12:02 PM
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sparkingchip

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Try this

I used Google translate which maybe adding a bit of a challenge.

I'm not sure why it is only used in France.

Andy
 19 July 2014 08:20 PM
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sparkingchip

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It may already be redundant technology with kit like Tado using your mobile phone gps to locate you and your family, turning the home heating up and down according to where you are.

A wifi controlled ufh programmable stat is available anyway for a stand alone ufh system.

Andy
 20 July 2014 12:57 AM
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Grobbyman

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I was quite impressed with the kit over the water.
Every electric radiator individually controlled from the central unit, controller, installed in the CU (by the fil pilote black cables in the pre filled flexi conduit).
Phone and broadband units installed in the CU.
Re-wires include RJ45 points in all rooms, including garage and bathroom, for phone and data transmission.
Patch box in the CU for terrestrial TV distribution.
Type A and AC RCDs.
Schematic diagrams at the CU.
Lists of what should be in each room and where ( bathroom, washing machine tumble dryer, immersion etc) and in what zones.
Surge protection, and a list of which parts of the country are at risk of lightning strike,
Double pole MCB's with auxy contacts if fil pilotes in cct.
Meter and EDF RCD as part of the CU (GTL).
Of course the cu's are huge, floor to ceiling minimum 600mm wide and 200mm deep.

Regards
George
 11 November 2017 12:39 AM
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sparkingchip

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I'm coming back to this again as I am looking at heaters with a pilot wire, why aren't we using them?

Andy B.
 11 November 2017 06:06 AM
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leckie

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Electric panel heaters operating from a main control on pilot wires are pretty common, they are often specified on smaller commercial office buildings.
 11 November 2017 11:29 AM
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sparkingchip

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I'm not keen on the idea of fitting smart wifi connected heaters in rented properties as there are alsorts of problems with doing so, so I would want to see all all the controls on the heaters or on the wall hardwired.

Andy B.
 11 November 2017 03:43 PM
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leckie

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That's what I'm talking about, you have a central 7-day timer and fit a Slave control to each other heater. The heaters can be linked with a control wiring circuit.

This sort of thing

http://www.shop4-heating.co.uk...Q6TEAQYBSABEgK_e_D_BwE
 11 November 2017 05:14 PM
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sparkingchip

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A lot of tenants don't have a fixed phone line and an Internet connection, they have mobile Internet on phones and the like, so they can't control the heating remotely once they leave home.

Andy B
 11 November 2017 07:27 PM
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leckie

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Your confusing me now Andy.

The system I am talking about requires a pilot wire, not wifi, radio, or anything else. It's a hard wired system. And it's not the only one, I just have experience of Dimplex and a few years ago, Creda. Dimples is certainly still available, not sure about Creda.
 11 November 2017 08:09 PM
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sparkingchip

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No intention to confuse.

A up selling feature of the some of the new electric heaters is that they are internet connected, well many tenants don't have a fixed landline and modem to hook them up to, only mobile internet. So to many tenants that feature is as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Andy B.
 11 November 2017 08:42 PM
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sparkingchip

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Leckie, I have sent you dome reading material by text

Andy B.
 11 November 2017 09:51 PM
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leckie

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Thanks for that. I'll have a look through it tomorrow. I am presently lying down recovering after going out for a massive curry ! And lager of course
 11 November 2017 10:32 PM
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sparkingchip

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Originally posted by: leckie

Thanks for that. I'll have a look through it tomorrow. I am presently lying down recovering after going out for a massive curry ! And lager of course



Potentially up to a £4000 fine for noncompliance.
 12 November 2017 08:47 AM
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leckie

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Interesting document Andy, thanks.

http://www.rla.org.uk/landlord...iency-standards.shtml

I am not sure if it's a problem for the electric heating controls that I am referring to though. They can linked with hard wiring.

Electric heaters are 100% efficient in terms of kW in kW out, but their control is important. So accurate thermostats with tight on/off temperature values and programmable time control would be important. The only reference I noticed with my quick scan through was referring to storage heating with fan assistance.

I assume these requirement will be based on an overall building energy performance where improvements can be made in a number of ways in order to achieve a satisfactory energy rating.

I'll have a closer read through later, I have to go to work for a couple of hours then I am off for a private CAD lesson! I asked Zs at Elex for a bit of advice on CAD, and told her I had never done it. She said "have a go, just draw anything, draw a mouse". That made me chuckle
 12 November 2017 10:13 AM
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sparkingchip

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I have started another discussion on this forum here.

The resurrection of this pilot wire discussion is due to another set of legislation that is coming in on the 1st January 2018 and a need to potentially completely reconsider what is being done with electric heating in private tenanted housing.

Andy B
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