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Topic Title: Garden Floor Recessed Lighting
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Created On: 07 July 2014 10:55 PM
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 07 July 2014 10:55 PM
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Avatar for MrOther.
MrOther

Posts: 531
Joined: 08 June 2010

Hi all,

In the near future I will be fitting many different external lighting in a newly decorated garden, totally top to bottom refit. Even installing ducts under pateo works because they intend in near future to have an outhouse at the bottom of the garden.

No plans or drawings for these pateos so...

Been told that going to flatten outten out hole in the ground (big and sort of round) and then put first layer of shingles, then a layer of sand then the tiles. I said I'll put my cables on top of the sand/buried in the sand as it gives me a bit for flexibility to move them in case of where the titles end up finally being and matching up. SWA or SY to be used.

Has anyone done this type of work before and maybe could offer some advice or maybe conducted some maintence years later and may offer some advice - I'm thinking, maybe putting some of that Shark Gel over lid screws to stop them becoming trusted over? That type of thing. I'm sure someone once on here said that buried a couple of plant pots under the recessed lights to store a little slack cable and JB.

All suggestions welcome. Thanks once again.
 08 July 2014 07:50 AM
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dickllewellyn

Posts: 1150
Joined: 19 March 2010

Morning Mr Other

For my sins I get involved in quite a lot of garden lighting. I quite like it except that when the sun comes out I tend to be in a loft instead due to my fantastic planning!

Have you seen the shark joints that simply fold over the cable? they are already filled with gel, assemble much like a resin joint, but are easy to get into for maintenance in the future. I tend to fit a lot of SELV fittings, so I use the transformers that can be buried. Thes I connect straight into the shark and try to get close to the surface somewhere out the way of her deniers but easy to get at for future maintenance. Just watch that some of those transformers have a minimum load. I've been caught out before installing 20w lamps in fittings and having the transformers pack up after a few months.

-------------------------
Regards
Richard (Dick)

"Insert words of wisdom and/or witty pun here"
 08 July 2014 08:46 AM
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Zoomup

Posts: 226
Joined: 20 February 2014

Originally posted by: MrOther

Hi all,



In the near future I will be fitting many different external lighting in a newly decorated garden, totally top to bottom refit. Even installing ducts under pateo works because they intend in near future to have an outhouse at the bottom of the garden.



No plans or drawings for these pateos so...



Been told that going to flatten outten out hole in the ground (big and sort of round) and then put first layer of shingles, then a layer of sand then the tiles. I said I'll put my cables on top of the sand/buried in the sand as it gives me a bit for flexibility to move them in case of where the titles end up finally being and matching up. SWA or SY to be used.



Has anyone done this type of work before and maybe could offer some advice or maybe conducted some maintence years later and may offer some advice - I'm thinking, maybe putting some of that Shark Gel over lid screws to stop them becoming trusted over? That type of thing. I'm sure someone once on here said that buried a couple of plant pots under the recessed lights to store a little slack cable and JB.



All suggestions welcome. Thanks once again.


Hello MrOther,
personally I do not like to bury anything that contains electrical joints in the garden, except good quality resin filled professional permanent joints. Water has a way of getting into most other "sealed" joints. I like all garden lighting etc. to have long manufacturer's leads attached to lights or pumps etc. Also I like to have all joint boxes (non metal IP54 min.) situated above ground, perhaps on short posts hidden in bushes for example. That makes them accessible and maintainable. I also like to provide small drainage/breather holes (2 or 3mm dia.) in the bottom of joint boxes to remove moisture caused by leakage or condensation. Most modern joint boxes eventually allow water in so drainage is important. I have never had any problems with this method of installation. Also any buried flexes, however short, WILL be pierced by a garden fork at some time in the future. Safety first and reliability second is my motto.

Good luck,

Bye,

Z.
 08 July 2014 03:46 PM
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MrOther

Posts: 531
Joined: 08 June 2010

Thank you the pair of you, some great points to consider.

Zoomup I'm much the same way but there isn't really anywhere at the mo to hide the boxes and be economical. All cables unless under patio or mechanically protected will be armoured and even those if I can be help it will be under a layer of bricks.

Dick what's your thoughts of SELV v 230v? My first thought is that though your increasing the risk because of the environment from my end it's an easier life
 08 July 2014 10:16 PM
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dickllewellyn

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Joined: 19 March 2010

230v is certainly easier, avoids transformers and therefore avoids an additional failure point, and 230v spikes and uplights seem more widely available. It also gives the option to fit retrofit LEDs if you opt for GU10 fittings.

Many of the jobs we get involved in have stupidly expensive Hunza light fittings. Most of their fittings are SELV, which does give you the additional safety, and also gives you a wider choice of lamps and beam angles etc.

Recessed up-lights are trickier than spikes, particularly if they are set into a patio. Is there a way you could have an inspection chamber or joint somewhere you could bring circuits into and then take ducts from there under slabs to the light fittings? That way you can use flex and don't have to try and burry junction boxes behind light fittings or try and gland armourds into them which is also tricky.

When using flex in garden lighting jobs, I tend to go for HO7 as it's nice and resilient to water, UV, temperature etc. I tend to oversize slightly as well to give it a bit more resilience.

-------------------------
Regards
Richard (Dick)

"Insert words of wisdom and/or witty pun here"
 09 July 2014 05:54 PM
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MrOther

Posts: 531
Joined: 08 June 2010

Great ideas Dick. Love the oversized cable idea, especially for H07 - if you don't have a brand new cutters it can be a bitch to strip, so can see this working a treat.

Do you know of any decent vendors to get hold of ducting?

When you say Inspection Chamber are you referring to these?

http://www.drainagepipe.co.uk/...pMnYuL8CFQQFwwodqnMA9g
 09 July 2014 06:10 PM
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mapj1

Posts: 2599
Joined: 22 July 2004

A normal IP65 JB on a short post or sleeper wall may be easier, but if you have to, then in the middle of a flat floor, what about

One of these
with a the joints in perhaps? (with cable stuffing glands on the inside going out, so you can inspect and tighten them..)
bit pricy maybe if you need a lot.. Normally one per light when used on a swimming pool.

-------------------------
regards Mike
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