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Topic Title: Bathroom RCD
Topic Summary: Do I need one in this situation?
Created On: 01 May 2014 08:40 PM
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 01 May 2014 08:40 PM
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mikejumper

Posts: 1702
Joined: 14 December 2006

I'm taking out some old mains downlights, closing off the holes and installing a single surface mounted unit with 3 spots, it wouldn't be my choice but it's what the customer wants.
(Class 1 fitting, specified as suitable for bathrooms, supplied by customer). It will be outside the zones. Earthing is good.

The bathroom is not RCD protected.

There will be some pulling around of cables in the loft but no new cables will need to be installed.

As it's not a direct replacement for the existing lights does an RCD need to installed?
 01 May 2014 09:26 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11349
Joined: 13 August 2003

Humm tricky. I don't think it's a clear cut case, but my gut feeling to discuss with the customer - RCD upgrade recommended (strongly recommended if the supp bonding is absent or doesn't include the lighting cct), but not mandatory. If customer declines then make good use of the 'comments on existing installation' box.
- Andy.
 01 May 2014 09:49 PM
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Rulland

Posts: 458
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And if you say you recommend an RCD, at extra cost, the client goes to 'friend of husbands at pub who know electrickery', part P's good like that....

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Those who make no mistakes do very little work!!......
 01 May 2014 10:25 PM
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antric2

Posts: 1052
Joined: 20 October 2006

No.
I would fit the new fitting and not always install an RCD or FCURCD.
This could be classed as maintenance as you are not altering,adding or fitting a new final circuit and you are not really changing the characteristics of the load or circuit to any detriment to safety or loading.

You could fit an FCU RCD in the supply cable to the bath light but again it would be being done from a want to do rather than a need to do.
Regards,
Antric
 02 May 2014 09:40 AM
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OMS

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It's not that difficult - is it ?

Explain in simple terms to the client the potential requirements for RCD protection in special locations and the advantages of doing so - provide an additional cost as part of a menu - ask them what they want to do.

If simply suggesting an RCD will result in a breakdown of the relationship between client and technical advisor then there has to be something rotten in the state of Denmark, don't you think.

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 02 May 2014 05:51 PM
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mikejumper

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Thanks all.
 02 May 2014 05:53 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: OMS

It's not that difficult - is it ?





It's really not that difficult, as you say...unless you did the original installation and have maintained it for a good few years....then the regs change and you have to explain to your long standing customer that what you previously did is now considered below par
 02 May 2014 06:20 PM
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OMS

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Originally posted by: weirdbeard

Originally posted by: OMS

It's not that difficult - is it ?


It's really not that difficult, as you say...unless you did the original installation and have maintained it for a good few years....then the regs change and you have to explain to your long standing customer that what you previously did is now considered below par


Or you take a grown up approach and explain that standads continue to improve, and requirememts change - it's not a personal thing, you should have nothing to be ashamed of

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 02 May 2014 10:06 PM
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spinlondon

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Yep, RCD protection is required.
 02 May 2014 10:25 PM
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Rulland

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Nope it isn't ....

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Those who make no mistakes do very little work!!......
 02 May 2014 10:26 PM
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Rulland

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Nope it isn't ....
Bs7671 is so much fun.....

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Those who make no mistakes do very little work!!......
 02 May 2014 10:35 PM
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ady1

Posts: 766
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I'm actually with Spin.
I think it does need an RCD as you have altered the lights, they are not a straight identical swap and the new ones are definitely in the bathroom.
With the greatest of respect of course

Regards
Ady

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Resistance is futile.
 02 May 2014 11:49 PM
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typiod

Posts: 188
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And what protection does an RCD provide on the lighting circuit if other circuits are non RCD protected on a TN-C-S installation?
 02 May 2014 11:50 PM
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spinlondon

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This is not a simple replacement of a light fitting.
From what I gather, there will be an alteration to the fixed wiring.
 02 May 2014 11:58 PM
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typiod

Posts: 188
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Originally posted by: spinlondon

This is not a simple replacement of a light fitting.

From what I gather, there will be an alteration to the fixed wiring.


What moving one cable from one hole in the ceiling to another ? what about the artex on the ceiling? (might have asbestos in it)
 03 May 2014 01:02 AM
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spinlondon

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Not quite that simple.
OP says downlights and holes, so that's not just moving from one hole to another.
 08 May 2014 06:34 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: OMS


Or you take a grown up approach and explain that standads continue to improve, and requirememts change - it's not a personal thing, you should have nothing to be ashamed of


I feel shame on behalf of those who sell us the regs books.......30mA RCD have been widely available for what.... 40 years? How come it took them so long to decide that they are now a requirement for safety purposes?
 08 May 2014 06:58 PM
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OMS

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You'd have to ask JPEL 64 and CENELEC that one.

In principle, however, there was nothing stopping designers using 30mA RCD protection as additional protection - we've been doing it in some sectors for many years - healthcare and education being two examples (for different reasons)

As I said, standards develop and the approach to risk changes over time

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 08 May 2014 07:22 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: OMS


As I said, standards develop and the approach to risk changes over time



Is it the approach to risk that has changed????, or that you can buy RCDs cheaper thesedays????
 08 May 2014 08:06 PM
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OMS

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Well, volume tends to influence price - so more RCD's in use means cheaper RCD's

Same concept at say the FITS payments to kickstart PV modules volume pricing

and yes, of course the attitude to risk has changed - in 30 years we are without doubt far more risk averse - it's a direct result of increasing affluence.

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Bathroom RCD

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