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Topic Title: 1954 Supplement
Topic Summary: Health and Safety
Created On: 29 April 2014 03:21 PM
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 29 April 2014 03:21 PM
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Thripster

Posts: 639
Joined: 22 August 2006

In the 1954 Supplement to the 12th Edition, amendment (H) stipulated that:-

"(H) Where flexible cords are used and the temperature is liable to exceed 135ºF (57ºC), aspestos-roved flexible cords complying with BS 1327 shall be used, in accordance with Regulation 1309."

Just wondered whether any of you have ever dealt with any such cable, either in installation, testing or de-commissioning?

Regards
 29 April 2014 08:36 PM
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aligarjon

Posts: 2828
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Would this be some of the stuff you find on very old imersion heaters ? i hope not, i didn't know it had asbestos in it

Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 29 April 2014 09:18 PM
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Thripster

Posts: 639
Joined: 22 August 2006

Well, I don't know Gary. Not trying to scare anybody - just wondered hiw common it was in its day?
 29 April 2014 10:38 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7459
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I occasionally see it on immersion heater flexes. Also some singles to heaters.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 29 April 2014 10:45 PM
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Thripster

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Then I probably have too - is it that white cable with the crispy outer skin?

Regards
 30 April 2014 05:41 PM
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BigRed

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Joined: 10 November 2006

Afternoon all,
To be found on old theatre lanterns, some ond motors and DC faceplate starters. Have found it in panel boards too.
 30 April 2014 06:16 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19663
Joined: 23 March 2004

Theatre curtains used to be full of the stuff

Asbestos roving was common in many "high temperature" cable applications of that era, it'll comprise multiple strands woven into the cloth overbraid.

Everything from iron flex, pendant drops to immersion heater or other heat resistant flexibles, motor fly leads etc etc

Curiously though, I can't find the BS referred to in the OP - can anyone check the number and I'll try another look

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 30 April 2014 08:05 PM
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Thripster

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Thanks all. Just checked BS number and it is definitely BS 1327. I have gleaned this information form a copy of the thirteenth edition of Newnes Electrical Pocket Book - so could there be a typo?

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 30 April 2014 08:14 PM
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Thripster

Posts: 639
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Just tried a Google and come up with Moustache Scissors. Anyone know whether these were VDE rated?


Thanks
 30 April 2014 08:30 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19663
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It may be a typo - I can search pretty well any standard and I can't pick up any reference to BS 1327 anywhere.

Perhaps the BOD, and his esoteric library, could find asbestos HR flex in an older publication and we might get a standard from there

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 30 April 2014 08:49 PM
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AJJewsbury

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It looks like BS 1327 to me in the IEE original.
- Andy.
 30 April 2014 08:51 PM
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redtoblackblewtopieces

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I googled "bs1327 flexible cord " and just got standard withdrawn 1946.
Kevin

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Safety through a Standard
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 30 April 2014 08:54 PM
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Zs

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For me it came up as

'Big Shrimpy Nest Bed Cover'



What's one of them then? I didn't dare look.

Zs
 30 April 2014 09:09 PM
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weirdbeard

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It looks like you stll get hold of it if need be, "to BS:6007, BS:6500 & IS:6380/IS:9968, IEC/540"

2. Multi core cable :- Cores constructed as single core cable, distinguishably colour coded & laid up circular with asbestos worming & finally glass braided & varnished or asbestos braided & compounded.
Cable with other protective sheath such as silicone, neoprene & CSP sheath, wire braid or single wire or strip armoured/screened also can be supplied.
Voltage grade : usually 1000v/3300/600/6600v
Size range : upto 630 sq mm.

http://prestigecables.com/Sili...nsulated%20Cables.html
 30 April 2014 09:16 PM
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AJJewsbury

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Looks like BS 1327 gets a mention in New Zealand's Standard Council's annual report for 1949-50 - seems to have been adopted as NZSS 724.

Interesting too see the international nature of standard even back then.

- Andy.
 01 May 2014 08:49 AM
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James Broughton

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BS EN 1327:1996 exists, but is for gas welding equipment (thermoplastic hoses)

Probably not relevant in this case!

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'This place would be a paradise tomorrow, if every department had a supervisor with a sub-machine gun'
 01 May 2014 10:43 AM
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perspicacious

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"Perhaps the BOD, and his esoteric library, could find asbestos HR flex in an older publication and we might get a standard from there"

I do have a reputation.......

From PD3271 Feb 1959 British Standards Institution and their sectional list of British Standards covering Electrical Engineering:

BS 1327 : 1946 Insulated asbestos roved Flexible Cords (cost 4/6)

It was still current in 1959 but I don't know when it was withdrawn.

A brief look at the other BS listed, the then oldest current one was BS 94 : 1920 Watertight Glands for Electric Cables (3/-)

The only other reference I can see to the use of asbestos in cables is BS 1497 being for Impregnated asbestos-covered copper conductors Part 1 : 1957 Round Wire (4/6) and Part 2 : 1957 Rectangular Conductors (5/-)

Yes, I am getting my coat and venturing outside even though it is raining

Regards

BOD

PS In case the capital police read this, all as printed in 1959
 01 May 2014 06:29 PM
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Thripster

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Thanks for all the feedback. Surprised there isn't a central, electronic record of all standards - or perhaps there is?

Regards
 01 May 2014 06:36 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19663
Joined: 23 March 2004

BSI have a database of course

We have a paid access for standards which is searchable, and includes all sorts of other standards (VDE, MiLSPEC, etc etc)

What I can't access is the list of cancelled standards, only those that are current and the route back to those that are withdrawn (rather than cancelled).

So from BOD's response, that particular standard was current around 1960, and I can see the emergence of the 6XXX series of electrical cable standards (which I suspect superseded your BS) - but not the date of cancellation

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 01 May 2014 11:22 PM
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ennel

Posts: 38
Joined: 20 October 2003

The 1981 BSI Yearbook shows:
"BS 1327:1946 Insulated asbestos roved Flexible Cords (withdrawn, superseded by BS 3249, BS 3258 and BS 3387" - but no withdrawal date given.

For these referenced standards, the same Yearbook also shows:
"BS 3249:1960 Cables and flexible cords insulated with varnished cambric and heat-resisting fibre (withdrawn)"
"BS 3258:1960 Silicone-rubber-insulated cables and flexible cords (withdrawn, superseded by BS6007 and 6500)"
"BS 3387:1961 Butyl-rubber-insulated cables and cords with heat-resisting fibre layer (withdrawn)"

I know that somewhere in my garage is a part coil of cable with a white braided insulation, with a shiny outer finish, (and which in the 1950s-1970s we always called 'asbestos insulated' and could well be to the 1946 standard) which was specified by London Underground for use on for interconnections in wire-wound resistor banks for slip-ring motors and also Ward Leonard systems on their lifts.
Useless info, but ....

I must admit I hadn't realised that BSI 'recycled and reused' old, withdrawn BS numbers with the addition of 'EN' or 'ISO' between the 'BS' abbreviation and the number.

ennel
IET » Wiring and the regulations » 1954 Supplement

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