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Topic Title: Electrical Installation Condition Report
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Created On: 26 February 2014 10:21 AM
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 26 February 2014 10:21 AM
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vauxhall

Posts: 2
Joined: 21 November 2002

Hello
I was wondering if the forum could advise what the reguilations are and "best practice" recommendations would be for low voltage Electrical Installation conditioning reporting on industrial sites.

I work for a company that has industrial and office sites throughout the UK and we have recently changed facilities management companies and this question has been thrown up, but we dont seem to have a policy.

I know the regs changed for domestic installations, but what is the "norm" on other industrial sites?

Would appreciate guidance on best pracitice, practical implementation and any cost considerations to consider.

Thanks in advance
 26 February 2014 11:18 AM
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zeeper

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The period of time between inspection and testing of the system is normally recommended by the designer of the system. further recommendations on the period of time between inspection and testing with be written on any current inspection and testing reports you have.
 26 February 2014 11:41 AM
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AJJewsbury

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I know the regs changed for domestic installations, but what is the "norm" on other industrial sites?

The template forms for reporting domestic (and similar situations up to 100A supply - which might cover some offices) - changed, but the fundamentals for doing the inspections are pretty much what they were. The aim is to make sure the electrical system is safe, how that's achieved is to a large extent up to the duty holder - as any one of a number of different approaches could be taken, depending on your particular situation. Some sites run 24/365 so don't want a complete shutdown for testing, so doing something alone the lines of one-fifth of a site each year on a 5-year cycle might be appropriate. Others might prefer a complete shutdown during wakes week and get it over with. If you have an in-house team of electricians that do regular maintenance and keep decent records, you might not need formal EICRs at all. There are lots of options. Perhaps get a couple of professional testers in to have a look at a typical site and talk over your needs with you and advise from there?
- Andy.
 26 February 2014 01:27 PM
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zeeper

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The template forms for reporting domestic (and similar situations up to 100A supply


Where does it say that
 26 February 2014 01:53 PM
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MrP

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Welcome to the forum Vaxhall
Guidance note 3 would be my first port of call
frequency of maintenance, use and environmental considerations would affect the type of periodic testing if any
There is nothing hard and fast or set in stone regarding frequency or type of testing however your employer has a duty of care to maintain a save working environment. Your question what's the norm there is no norm each installation is different
Most periodic inspections are driven by insurance or local building control requirements which require a piece of paper to state that the installation is satisfactory every xx years. An insurer may require the report to have a trade badge on the top.
There are many electrical companies out there that profess to offer a testing service, in reality there are very few who understand the Inspection and testing process
My advice would be have a good look at Guidance note 3 as the duty holder make your own assessment, don't end up with pages of useless numbers in boxes, plenty of companies out there who will sell you that. Remember it's a report your after, detailed information, pictures, explanations and recommendations the numbers bit is secondary

My site don't do any testing other than initial verification or maintenance everything has a service life once its reached its birthday its ripped out and new installed

Good luck buddy

MrP day 8 stayed up to watch united what a mistake
 26 February 2014 02:49 PM
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zeeper

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your ok, found it page 90 GN3
 26 February 2014 03:26 PM
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leckie

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The insurance companies are often the driving force for EICR's.
They often have a timescale of requiring an EICR every 5 years.
 26 February 2014 03:47 PM
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AJJewsbury

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your ok, found it page 90 GN3

and BS 7671 p400 (top)

I was slightly hesitant to recommend GN3 - firstly it's much about technical detail which might be a bit OTT for the OP who seems to be more interested in "policy" at this stage. Also GN3 doesn't really address the bigger industrial stuff - while the underlying theory might well be the same, the practicalities could be a lot different. That said, I don't know what sort of "industrial" we're talking about or vauxhall's technical ability, so I could well be wrong on that count!

Another point might be not to consider an EICR in isolation, but as part of an overall safety policy - from working practices at one end (which might influence the need for RCDs for example) - through EICRs - to appliances (both fixed and portable).

Does anyone know if the HSE have any suitable guidance?

- Andy.
 26 February 2014 04:12 PM
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zeeper

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All we can argue now is the meaning of electrical installation. because you could have a large site made up of many <100A distribution boards.
 26 February 2014 04:38 PM
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John Peckham

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Vauxhall

Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately there is a not a standard specification for periodic inspection and testing. Clients are often subject to sharp practice and corrupt behavior from contractors. A periodic inspection and test could be a look through the letterbox by someone who can barely mist up a mirror. In the industry these reports are known as "Drive Byes". This includes companies who are registered with various bodies and displaying their logo.

A common sharp practice is alleged sampling so a percentage of circuits are tested on a distribution board. So if you have 10 distribution boards the company would say they would test 20% of those boards, then 20% of the circuits on that board and then 20% of the sockets connected to that board. So in effect hardly anything is tested.

You need to verify that the person(s) who come to site have a qualification to carry out inspection and testing. Don't believe the hype of "qualified" or "fully qualified". Ask to see the qualifications for all the persons who are going to come to site to do the work. Also ask for a risk assessment and method statement for the work. Decent companies will happily provide qualifications and other paperwork but avoid companies who prevaricate.

Se out in your specification for the work. You can use the information as suggested above from IET Guidance Note 3.

1. A list of what you want inspected and tested. List the distribution boards and areas to be done.
2. List what you want inspected.
3. List what you want tested.
4. List what tests you want to be applied.
5. List what documentation you want the information to be presented on.

If you have the capability, or want to buy it in, have the inspection and testing witnessed by a person with the technical knowledge and communication skills to ensure the job is done correctly.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 26 February 2014 05:47 PM
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OMS

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Regulation 4 (2) of the Electricity at Work regulations (EAWR) 1989
requires:

As may be necessary to prevent danger, all systems shall be maintained so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, such danger.

That's your jumping off point - how you meet the objectives is largely a function of the type of installation you have, and how you manage it.

Whilst many of the comments above are focused on an EICR offered to what is often an uninformed client, it is entirely possible to meet the obligations under EAWR without ever having to dirty your hands with an outsourced EICR.

You can, and many do, employ a process of continuous monitoring of the installations, combined with good record keeping - usually derived from a comprehensive maintenance schedule of installed plant and equipment.

The questions have to be "What do you do at the moment" and "What did your old FM company do"

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 26 February 2014 06:54 PM
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anastasis

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Originally posted by: MrP
Most periodic inspections are driven by insurance or local building control requirements which require a piece of paper to state that the installation is satisfactory every xx years.

I can't see how building control gets a say once something has been built!

I think you mean licensing.
 26 February 2014 07:21 PM
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rocknroll

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local building control requirements.


That should read Local Authority requirements, not Building Control requirements.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 27 February 2014 02:40 PM
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vauxhall

Posts: 2
Joined: 21 November 2002

Gents
Thanks for the feedback.
The various points made are pretty much along the lines I was going down, but there are some points I never considered.

Cheers all.



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