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Topic Title: Duty of care
Topic Summary: Leaving a job - not upto scratch
Created On: 25 February 2014 08:07 PM
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 25 February 2014 08:07 PM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

Hi
A family with very little money wants new kitchen electrics.
The service head has no main earth connection and around here a PME head costs £220. Presently, an acceptable Zs reading is obtained via the gas and water bond.
To keep the cost down - i'm considering a new circuit for the whole of the kitchen and fitting a rod and rcd to the Henley's and a link to the bonds.
This would make my work acceptable, but keep the existing installation not very good.... What do you think.
BTW. I'm expecting all sorts of trouble should i fit a new board, but I know they don't want to stretch to that.

Regards
Ady

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Resistance is futile.
 25 February 2014 08:22 PM
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mossep

Posts: 353
Joined: 05 December 2010

Wonga?

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www.mossep.com
 25 February 2014 08:26 PM
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antric2

Posts: 1087
Joined: 20 October 2006

Evening Ady,
What you charge a customer for your time and work can only be determined by yourself.
How old is the property and what type is it?Is there any evidence of a previous earth connection or rod anywhere.
As for safety,I would take a Ze with no bond connected,ring the local REC on the emergency line if its too high and they will be out within 3 hours to check your claim.They may well sort situation out and provide the earth you require and for no cost.
I presume it must be and has been TNS supply and maybe the earth was ripped out by some one else prior but either way I would and have previously argued the toss about this and got results.
Up here in Manchester I must admit the REC \Utilities have been spot on and very accomodating in this situation.
This needs to be sorted with even a temporary RCD on the feed til all is correct and properly earth not via gas or water.

Regards
Antric
PS, PME £220 thats very cheap but stand your ground with the utilities and play the HSE card if you have too but I think you will be surprised by the positive help Utilities will give you
 25 February 2014 08:39 PM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

Thanks Antric
In Hull - It's very common for a shell end supply. Just a L & N and originally a 4mm un-screened bond to a water pipe from around 1900.
The REC sweat on a 10mm at the end and sometimes a metre further back - under the floor they fit a clamp. Then they link to the N at call it PME although its more like the old TN-CS. Then bill the customer £220
BTW. Its a long row of terraced houses.

Regards
Ady

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Resistance is futile.
 25 February 2014 08:43 PM
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aligarjon

Posts: 2923
Joined: 09 September 2005

ive looked at a couple of jobs recently where the customer was unwilling to pay to upgrade the consumer unit or alter wiring properly but didn't mind spending a couple of grand or more on a kitchen and fit it around a mess of wiring. Fortunately work has picked up enough for me to not bother quoting on both of them.

Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 25 February 2014 08:53 PM
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antric2

Posts: 1087
Joined: 20 October 2006

Originally posted by: aligarjon

ive looked at a couple of jobs recently where the customer was unwilling to pay to upgrade the consumer unit or alter wiring properly but didn't mind spending a couple of grand or more on a kitchen and fit it around a mess of wiring. Fortunately work has picked up enough for me to not bother quoting on both of them.



Gary

This is a very true matter of fact and sometimes it is difficult to turn away but some jobs are just not worth the hassle if you can afford to loose the work.
Have they had a recent meter change by chance because if they have you could also play on that aspect of service from the provider and use it as a persuasive argument as to why they had not picked up the earth problem on the visual inspection.
 25 February 2014 11:19 PM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

Hi again Antric
Thanks for your input.
Here. When a customer calls the REC stating there is no earth to the house - yes they come out quick and do a temporary fix - but charge for it.
It boils down to the fact that they are under no obligation to provide an earth, but if they did, they must ensure its service.
Also, the meter department are not interested nor trained in earthing and only have to confirm polarity.
Only the jointers understand the earthing and they are only there under the utiliities instructions who you can be assured are in it for the money - not the safety.
Wrong as it is - i'm sure my assessor would say 'Your bit complies and you haven't made the rest any worse - send them a letter suggesting its remedied.....job done.'
Regards
Ady

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Resistance is futile.
 26 February 2014 10:19 AM
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Ricicle

Posts: 851
Joined: 23 October 2006

It depends on how close you are to the family and whether you consider yourself a charity. You still have to earn a living and do the most satisfactory job you can.....

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Empty barrels make the most noise.
 26 February 2014 11:02 AM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

Thanks Ricicle
I dont know them. I owe them nothing, so have quoted for a new consumer unit, rod etc in my single price for the whole job.
I will also state in my quote that the electrics are in a potentially dangerous condition as they are.
Thanks
Ady

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Resistance is futile.
 26 February 2014 07:06 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3233
Joined: 31 March 2005

Originally posted by: ady1

Hi

A family with very little money wants new kitchen electrics.

The service head has no main earth connection and around here a PME head costs £220. Presently, an acceptable Zs reading is obtained via the gas and water bond.

To keep the cost down - i'm considering a new circuit for the whole of the kitchen and fitting a rod and rcd to the Henley's and a link to the bonds.

This would make my work acceptable, but keep the existing installation not very good.... What do you think.

BTW. I'm expecting all sorts of trouble should i fit a new board, but I know they don't want to stretch to that.



Regards

Ady


I always do my own type of means test on such a job.
Do they smoke? if yes, then they can afford to pay for my time rather than doing that.
Its amazing how many familes plead poverty when it comes to having work done, but still have the latest TV, playstations all round, over priced trainers etc etc.


Presuming that the kitchen firm isnt doing it for free, im sure they should get their priorities right.

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Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 26 February 2014 08:35 PM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

Hi Pete
Your right....
I just dont like the customer to think i'm trying it on, nor the Kitchen company to think 'blimey - he's expensive'...
Guess I will have to wait and see.
Quote posted tomorrow.
Regards
Ady

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 26 February 2014 10:06 PM
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505diff

Posts: 151
Joined: 20 March 2006

I had a bloke in tears as he had no money to finish his extension electrics, I told him best ring me when you have the money then, he then found the money to finish the electrics, landscape the garden, oh and purchase a £45,000 Merc, funny how things turn around.
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