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Topic Title: 16A ovens
Topic Summary: Fine on a 13A plug
Created On: 17 February 2014 07:39 PM
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 17 February 2014 07:39 PM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

Is there any clarification on this subject.
Eg. The european ovens at 3600 w having a 13a plug or a FSU on the end.
My assessor and I agree there is no problem using a 13a fuse so long as its a multifunction oven with more than one element.
But increasingly suppliers are stating they must be hard wired - surely, to stop DIYers plugging them into 4 way extension leads.

Regards
Ady

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Resistance is futile.
 17 February 2014 07:42 PM
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aligarjon

Posts: 2834
Joined: 09 September 2005

I thought manufacturers instructions took preference over the regs ?
If you want to take responsibility if it catches fire Ady thats up to you.


Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 17 February 2014 07:50 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3152
Joined: 31 March 2005

John lewis for example do a 3600w oven with a single element. That went on a 16A radial.

If i could convince myself that it had other functions that wouldnt work at the same time, then 13A is fine, but what ever the manufacturers say is king.

I dont do callbacks, so right first time has to be the way.

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Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 17 February 2014 08:25 PM
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geoffsd

Posts: 344
Joined: 15 June 2010

Why would you want to? Is there not a 'cooker' circuit?
 17 February 2014 08:32 PM
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mikejumper

Posts: 1714
Joined: 14 December 2006

Originally posted by: ady1
But increasingly suppliers are stating they must be hard wired - surely, to stop DIYers plugging them into 4 way extension leads.
Regards
Ady

I don't think 3.6kW ovens should have 13A plugs on them.
Hard wired is surely better in the long term anyway.
 17 February 2014 08:57 PM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

Hi
Given the opportunity to run a 16A radial - I always will.
However, there are many times where the cost of a new radial would not be viable, when we can calculate, apply diversity and common sense and use a 13A fuse.
I'm sure i don't need to remind anyone, that the European ovens are rated at 16A because their plugs are not fused - thus relying only on a 16a mcb at the board (which is much less tolerant than a 13A fuse).
Regards
Ady

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Resistance is futile.
 17 February 2014 09:01 PM
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ady1

Posts: 766
Joined: 19 April 2005

BTW
Its not usually the manufacturers that are stating a 13a fuse cannot be used - it's the shops (covering their behinds in case its plugged into a 4 way multiple for example).
So a FSU then !!
Pete - in your example, I agree a single element would need a 16A supply. (I have not seen many like that though).

Regards
Ady

-------------------------
Resistance is futile.
 17 February 2014 09:26 PM
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KFH

Posts: 205
Joined: 06 November 2010

I have done a couple of 16A ovens recently; they both had manufacturers instructions saying 16A supply. In both cases I was told they were buying fan ovens which I have usually connected to the RFC via the supplied 13A plug if there was no seperate supply available but fortunately I asked the customers for the spec of these ovens in advance of me finishing the kitchen wiring and I ran separate radials.
 17 February 2014 09:38 PM
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mattyatty1204

Posts: 9
Joined: 16 October 2011

I work for as an electrical contractor for a local kitchen company who on most jobs end up installing two ovens that are above 3kW often 3.6kW as above.

I believe for day to day use they don't actually go above 13A so a plug head would be fine but when the pyro self-cleaning function is used they actually pull full power for an extended duration and therefore require a higher rated fuse than 13A. In all honesty it's a dedicated load and appliance so really an individual supply should be used and this is what I always do a 16A feed on a 2.5 T+E back to the consumer unit.

In some circumstances if this isn't feasible and an existing cooker supply exists often a 6mm T+E on a 32A breaker I install a 2 way insulated garage board in the adjacent cupboard to the ovens then run two 16A feeds to the appliances locally but obviously still incorporate a 20A DP isolator for maintenance purposes etc.

I think using a plug head for an individual appliance with a rating over 13A is a little bit daft even when diversity and often a 240V supply is used to calculate the load, it's still pulling 15A at full load!
 17 February 2014 11:07 PM
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geoffsd

Posts: 344
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OTT?

What is a dedicated load?

Why not just connect them both (or just one) to the 32A cooker circuit? - fault current protection being satisfactory.
 18 February 2014 08:03 AM
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leckie

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Why not both on 32A? Because I suspect the manufacturers instruction will specify 16A max. The last few I have looked at have anyway.
 18 February 2014 09:12 AM
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zeeper

Posts: 1409
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Is there any clarification on this subject.
Eg. The european ovens at 3600 w having a 13a plug or a FSU on the end.
My assessor and I agree there is no problem using a 13a fuse so long as its a multifunction oven with more than one element.


bs7671 appendix 15

cookers , ovens etc over 2KW on own dedicated circuit


But increasingly suppliers are stating they must be hard wired - surely, to stop DIYers plugging them into 4 way extension leads.


reg 134.1.1
 18 February 2014 09:18 AM
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broadgage

Posts: 1293
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IMHO, if it uses more than 13 amps in normal operation then it should not be connected to a 13 amp plug.

An oven suggests a single element, or several elements that are switched or controlled together and that would normally run at the same time.

I do not believe that ANY diversity can be applied to a single load like an oven.
If it uses 16 amps, then on a 16 amp circuit it should go.

One can of course apply diversity to the whole installation on the entirely reasonable assumption that not every appliance will be used at the same time.
 18 February 2014 04:37 PM
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geoffsd

Posts: 344
Joined: 15 June 2010

Originally posted by: leckie

Why not both on 32A? Because I suspect the manufacturers instruction will specify 16A max. The last few I have looked at have anyway.

I cannot dispute what you have seen but that would be unreasonable.

However, generally if a manufacturer states a 16A supply is required, that will be a minimum for operation.
If a 16A max is required that will be to protect the flex supplied.

They are not going to go into details for omission of overload protection and fault current considerations.
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