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Topic Title: Is it a regulation ?
Topic Summary: Sockets mounted higher than 1200mm
Created On: 18 January 2014 11:43 AM
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 18 January 2014 04:59 PM
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stateit

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Wish the NHBC Inspector had been that particular about all of Parts A - P in the two past NHBC 'passed' new-builds my mother has moved into...

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S George
http://www.sg-electrical.com
 18 January 2014 05:38 PM
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ebee

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There is not an actual reg for mounting height actual dimensions but as Rock says with new builds you got to account for it being reasonable to get to in the most reasonable of foreseen circumstances.

Old builds you don`t have quite the same enforcement on that at present although I would hope that as professionals we`d endeavour to work towards the App Doc.
Part M does mention that one way of achieving this is to mount between those heights (I`m not aware of another way that would easily suffice but there may be some).

So I think that the NHBC is correct.

Actually it is refreshing to know that one NHBC insp is showing joined up thinking about electrical mounting heights considering the number of relatively new build consumer units I`ve seen.

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Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 18 January 2014 05:47 PM
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peteTLM

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NHBC have their own made up regs that they insist on in all aspects of a construction.

Isolators in kitchens and for otherwise in accessable sockets is 'preferrential engineering'. it makes sense most of the time, but there isnt an actual stipulation for it.

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 18 January 2014 05:47 PM
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geoffsd

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Originally posted by: leckieThat's the exact point, the occupant, or a future occupant, might also be confined to a wheelchair. That is the point of the Approved Document.

We are talking about the present occupier/purchaser who wants HIS tv on HIS wall.

Do you think you can just flout Building Regulations? Part L, F, E, etc?

It is not flouting Building Regulations (IF YOU CAN FIND ONE) to install a customers tv as he wants.

It might be open to interpretation, but if the NHBC Inspector says he won't sign it off, then that's his interpretation, end of.

That doesn't mean he is correct but more of a jobsworth.


I know the British are a law-abiding lot but come on.
 18 January 2014 06:13 PM
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leckie

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I don't think we are talking about the client wanting HIS tv on HIS wall. I think we are talking about a new build, and the electrical contractors has installed a socket at a height that does not comply with how the NHBC inspector has interpreted section 8. The inspector thinks there should be an isolator fitted. Personally, so do I, so we each have an opinion. Alas, it is the NHBC Inspectors opinion that counts, not yours or mine.

A few years ago I argued with an inspector regarding having to fit specific lamp-holders to pendants that would only accept low energy lamps as was the requirement to comply with, the then in force, Part L document. My client did not want them because they were ugly, the lamps were expensive, and it was difficult to get lampshades to fit the oversized body of the fittings. I pointed out that gls lamps were being phased out, and soon only lower rating gls lamps, or low energy lamps would be available in a BC fitting so whats the problem? No good we had to fit them. Within 12 months the Part L document was amended and standard BC lamp holders could be fitted again. For the reasons I gave the inspector.

So as you can see, common sense does not alway come into it!

Anyway, I'm off for a pint.
 18 January 2014 07:05 PM
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geoffsd

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Ah. I took client to mean the owner.
 18 January 2014 07:24 PM
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ebee

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If it`s a regulation made up by NHBC and you are contracted to do the work as per their regulations then even if our Regs (BS 7671) and the Building Regs did not require them you would still be obliged to do as they say

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Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 18 January 2014 07:42 PM
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Phillron

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If you and the householder have dropped a clanger and the local isolator is still not wanted
Point the inspector towards the means of isolation that already exists at the consumer unit
 18 January 2014 08:57 PM
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colinhaggett

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Best the TV is mounted below 1200 mm as well! Think your just unlucky this time.
 19 January 2014 10:46 AM
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tomgunn

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Stupid regs for new builds - not wanting to sound too bad but how many 'needs' people are there buying new houses? Anyways - why not fit a dual box and have one side with a sw'd spur and if he needs more then an adapter?

Tom

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

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 19 January 2014 11:17 AM
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phantom9

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Originally posted by: leckie

This is Neweys take on it from there guidance info

">http://www.neweysonlin...uk/.....tic.raction



They are confusing me!



They say sockets to be between 450 and 1000 ; don't know how they think sockets above kitchen worktops will be used, you'd have a job to plug anything in!



They also comment that switches should be between 450 and 1200, unless a particular appliance requires it to be higher. Don't know we're they have got the info from though.


These statements refer to facilities 'other than dwellings'. I've just pulled up the online version of Approved Document M and all that stuff is listed in 4.30, which does NOT apply to dwellings.

The relevant part to dwellings is given in 8.1 and refers to between 450 and 1200mm, which is what is repeated in Part P.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, as the saying goes.

Edited: 19 January 2014 at 11:30 AM by phantom9
 19 January 2014 11:27 AM
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perspicacious

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"If you and the householder have dropped a clanger and the local isolator is still not wanted
Point the inspector towards the means of isolation that already exists at the consumer unit"


We'll have to wait for the OP to reveal the height at which he has mounted the CU

Regards

BOD
 19 January 2014 11:46 AM
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ebee

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You Nawty Nawty Bod!



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Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 19 January 2014 11:53 AM
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perspicacious

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Me Ebee? As if....

The OP really needs to think through the consequences of trying to make a point, as it could apply to far more that the one the guy has picked up and if the guy does start to read up more, the OP might find himself with a shed load more problems.........

Regards

BOD
 19 January 2014 01:31 PM
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ebee

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Yes Bod I think you got it in one there. I really do

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Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 19 January 2014 02:25 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: perspicacious

"If you and the householder have dropped a clanger and the local isolator is still not wanted

Point the inspector towards the means of isolation that already exists at the consumer unit"


We'll have to wait for the OP to reveal the height at which he has mounted the CU



I'd have thought if there was a problem with the height of the CU this would have been addressed by the jobsworth before getting to the height of a dedicated high level socket for a TV
 19 January 2014 04:05 PM
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ebee

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Well you`d think so wouldn`t you weird lad but in practice not always.
Some clerk of works/inspectors etc pick up on some items but surprisingly not on others.
`taint logical I know but it happens like that sometimes (in all walks of life)

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Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 19 January 2014 04:23 PM
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weirdbeard

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I'd do the second fix, then challege the jobsworth to contest the BS7671 certificate in court......
 19 January 2014 04:33 PM
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leckie

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It doesn't work like that; he just won't sign it off. Then it's you that needs to look to the law., and all the hassle that involves. In the mean time the client would just get someone else to sort it as they want the house signing off.

As I said earlier, get your bolster out and a bag of easifill and sort it out! Things like that are just not worth the effort.
 19 January 2014 05:14 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: leckie

It doesn't work like that;


It does in my area
IET » Wiring and the regulations » Is it a regulation ?

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