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Topic Title: Is it a regulation ?
Topic Summary: Sockets mounted higher than 1200mm
Created On: 18 January 2014 11:43 AM
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 18 January 2014 11:43 AM
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ACLectrics

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Joined: 29 August 2012

I have a domestic installation where the client has requested a socket be mounted behind the TV higher than the 1200mm regulation.
I have been told that it needs an isolator to meet with the regulations, however I cannot find any information in the wiring regs or Part P or M of the building regs that states that this is a requirement.

Many thanks in advance for any assistance.
 18 January 2014 12:06 PM
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MrP

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Welcome to the forum AC

You can't find the 1200 reg because there isn't one I think someone is having you over

MrP out of here in three days
 18 January 2014 12:12 PM
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geoffsd

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Why would a socket need an isolator?

It's his house and his television.

The 450 - 1200 only applies to new-build and then would not apply to specific needs.
 18 January 2014 12:15 PM
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leckie

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Well I don't think there is a problem with installing the socket at high level as that is a requirement for the appliance. But if the socket is behind the TV then I would think an isolator at a height in accordance with Approved Document M would be required. I can't recall this being specifically pointed out within the document, but if the document tried to cover every possibility it would become rather large.

I think this is the "common sense" approach.

That is if Part M is applicable
 18 January 2014 12:18 PM
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leckie

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Part M does refer to wall mounted accessories being fixed between 450 and 1200 mm from the floor. It includes a diagram.
 18 January 2014 12:42 PM
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ACLectrics

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Forgot to mention it is a new build, and I can see the common sense in installing one, but the room is now plastered and I am in discussions with the NHBC inspector who is saying it needs an isolator.
I just need to check if it is a "regulation" or just good practice.

Thanks for the replies.
 18 January 2014 01:08 PM
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MrP

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No different to putting a socket in a cupboard for a extraction hood The TV won't be flush to the wall it will sit on a bracket with the socket sat flush inside the bracket

MrP
 18 January 2014 01:31 PM
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rocknroll

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From a Building Inspectors point of view a socket at high level which is likely to be an unswitched socket behind a wall mounted TV (some houses come with TV's etc; now) requires an isolator to be mounted within 450/1200mm this is normally achieved by running a spur from the nearest socket outlet via a SFU, as pointed out no different from a kitchen appliance where the socket is behind the fridge, washing machine or whatever.

regards

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leave nothing but footprints!"
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"Oh! The drama of it all."
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 18 January 2014 01:43 PM
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ACLectrics

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The socket behind the TV is switched.

Can you point me in the direction of the "Regulation" that states it must be done this way?
 18 January 2014 02:04 PM
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redtoblackblewtopieces

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I would think it depends on the installed situation, have done jobs in the past where a tv was installed at high level in alcoves or where the tv was very large and in these situations I installed a remote point of isoltation but with most brackets and the socket installed at a position where the switch could be easily activated then there's no need.Rember your not after his opinion get him to quote you the regulation.
Kevin

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 18 January 2014 02:05 PM
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rocknroll

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A Building Inspector has a much broader picture to look at than Part M, they also to be aware of DDA and BS8300, but for your benefit I think this extract from Part M will suffice;

Section 8 of Approved Document M, which applies to new dwellings, includes the objective of assisting people whose reach is limited to use the dwelling more easily by locating wall-mounted switches and socket outlets at suitable heights.

But I think this is where common-sense applies, if the TV starts fizzling and crackling then a safe isolation procedure is required, an isolator at a reasonable level is a good safe solution than trying to get to the socket (unswitched or not) behind the faulty equipment for all whether disabled or not.

Really only you have the choice here, do what is asked of you and the job can be signed off, simples.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------

Edited: 18 January 2014 at 02:26 PM by rocknroll
 18 January 2014 02:20 PM
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jamieblatant

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These rules and regs are what the armed forces call "fads"

A fad derived from management fad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Management_fad is a made up rule that normally has good intentions but it actually rubbish made up by some one and can often be dangerous or stupid

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 18 January 2014 02:23 PM
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broadgage

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My understanding was that building regs require that general purpose socket outlets should be installed at between 450mm and 1,200mm above floor level so as to be reachable by those with restricted mobility.

But that additional socket outlets for a particular appliance could be installed higher or lower than that.

I have seen a top qaulity new build home with most outlets at the required height, but one high level one in each room,
 18 January 2014 02:40 PM
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redtoblackblewtopieces

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This has nothing to do with any posts above other than getting me thinking but if the means of isolation was to prevent fizzing and crackling shouldn't part m state that all ceiling lights should be wired via fed switches and dp switches ? Taking into account section 8
Kevin

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 18 January 2014 02:55 PM
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leckie

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This is Neweys take on it from there guidance info
http://www.neweysonline.co.uk/PartM/Static.raction

They are confusing me!

They say sockets to be between 450 and 1000 ; don't know how they think sockets above kitchen worktops will be used, you'd have a job to plug anything in!

They also comment that switches should be between 450 and 1200, unless a particular appliance requires it to be higher. Don't know we're they have got the info from though.
 18 January 2014 02:57 PM
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geoffsd

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Originally posted by: rocknroll
From a Building Inspectors point of view a socket at high level which is likely to be an unswitched socket behind a wall mounted TV (some houses come with TV's etc; now) requires an isolator to be mounted within 450/1200mm

But that is the OP's question - does it?

this is normally achieved by running a spur from the nearest socket outlet via a SFU,

I don't think 'normally' applies.
Why would it need a fuse?
Why would it need a switch?

as pointed out no different from a kitchen appliance where the socket is behind the fridge, washing machine or whatever.

I don't think it has been pointed out but, Indeed, it is no different than a kitchen appliance.
It doesn't require a switch either.

If the householder is not of limited reach and does not want an extra switch then he does not have to have one.

The OP asked for a regulation. There is none.
 18 January 2014 03:08 PM
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ACLectrics

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Nothing I have read talks about accessories mounted higher needing an isolator between the regulation 450-1200mm.

If isolation due to a fault developing was required, then surely the fan isolator normally found above the bathroom door would also have to be down beside the light switch?

It sounds as if the interpretation of the regulations is the case as there seems to be no written regulation?
 18 January 2014 03:46 PM
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leckie

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New builds are subject to Approved Document M, agreed? You cannot say it's my house and I can have what I want, not if you want to get the house signed off

Section 8 page 69 in here
http://www.planningportal.gov....r/BR_PDF_ADM_2004.pdf

I can't find any exemptions, so to me, if you want high level sockets to hoods, tv's, etc, the NHBC inspectors interpretation is probably correct.

I doubt if he will change his mind anyway, so I reckon you will be getting your bolster chisel out and a bag of easifill.
 18 January 2014 04:12 PM
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geoffsd

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It's common sense.

The householder may be 6'8"
 18 January 2014 04:48 PM
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leckie

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That's the exact point, the occupant, or a future occupant, might also be confined to a wheelchair. That is the point of the Approved Document.

Do you think you can just flout Building Regulations? Part L, F, E, etc?

It might be open to interpretation, but if the NHBC Inspector says he won't sign it off, then that's his interpretation, end of.
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