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Topic Title: Is this acceptable?
Topic Summary: moving lighting circuits off the RCD to make space for socket circuits
Created On: 01 November 2013 01:41 PM
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 01 November 2013 01:41 PM
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BrucieBonus

Posts: 755
Joined: 20 February 2007

Hi all

Just finished up an domestic EICR - the board is an MK ones, type 2 circuit breakers. Half of the circuits are RCD protected and half not - however, it seems a bit random as to how they were placed ie only 1 socket circuit is RCD protected, the rest are lights. No spare ways

The client wants some new work done to a socket circuit - but it's not on the RCD (neither are all of those which could supply outdoor equipment, so it's an EICR fail)

My question is, can I swap over some lighting circuits to the non RCD side to make space?

I feel a bit uneasy about this as I am then making the lighting circuits 'less safe' (although the socket ones will be more safe!).

The other options would be:

New fuse board - 24 circuits, so will be expensive
Mini RCD board for some of the socket circuits so that they comply.
RCD fused spur for new socket circuit work - cheap - but will look a bit pants though

Let me know your thoughts please!

thanks
BB
 01 November 2013 02:03 PM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19900
Joined: 23 March 2004

OK - whatever you do will be a Code 3 in a domestic - basically RCD protection to every circuit and then more than one RCD to combat hazards, inconvenience etc.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, in my experience, sockets outlets are a source of greater risk than lighting circuits

So, assuming an outbreak of common sense,moving a lighting circuit to the non RCD side of the board in favour of moving a socket outlet circuit to the RCD side of the board has to be the most cost effective form of risk management, and I'd be happy to support that action

Try not to move the lighting circuit that does the bathroom to maintain RCD protection to all circuits of the special location

Perhaps your fourth option is an RCBO or 3 ?

regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 01 November 2013 02:05 PM
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whjohnson

Posts: 750
Joined: 24 January 2009

Can you not double up some of the lighting ccts, say stick 2 ccts serving the same floor level on a single mcb, and maybe uprate the mcb to 10A if final load requires it?

-------------------------
Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
 01 November 2013 02:11 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19900
Joined: 23 March 2004

LOL - Regulation group 314 ?

Regards

OMS

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Failure is always an option
 01 November 2013 02:24 PM
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BrucieBonus

Posts: 755
Joined: 20 February 2007

Hi folks

Thanks for speedy replies!

RCBO not an option as these are old style MK type 2 breakers so RCBo won't fit the board

Most of the lighting circuits are already doubled up (some not yet traced, so might be redundant - I've disconnected them and will wait and see if the customer reports back on anything not working) - so yes, that's a possible as some only do 2 or 3 lights so no over load issues....

Food for thought, thanks

BB
 01 November 2013 04:25 PM
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stateit

Posts: 2227
Joined: 15 April 2005

IIRC MK older style MCBs will swap out for modern MK RCBOs perfectly well.

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 01 November 2013 07:11 PM
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antric2

Posts: 1087
Joined: 20 October 2006

Evening,
Remove light circuit from RCD side to none RCD side.Fit RCDFCU (Type 7288)fused down to 5A.Run lighting cable from breaker through the 7288 RCDFCU.
Then fit sockets to RCD side with correct breaker.This is easy and cheapest option.We have done it for years when budget is tight.
RCDFCU about 15 quid
Regards
Antric
 01 November 2013 07:44 PM
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BrucieBonus

Posts: 755
Joined: 20 February 2007

Thanks again for taking time to reply

Stateit - MK tell me they don't.. but maybe they're after more sales?? The board has MK LN59XX type 2 breakers (sorry can't seem to post a link - but the are those horrible ones with the exposed screw connection on the top and bottom). Maybe I'll take an MK rcbo and give it a whirl...

Antric - yes, that's a good solution, although I guess if I need to move more than 1 or 2 circuits, the cupboard will look like a RCDFCU breeding ground!

BB
 01 November 2013 08:14 PM
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antric2

Posts: 1087
Joined: 20 October 2006

Yes fair comment,BB.
So if more than 2 light circuits.Next step is 16A circuit from non RCD side into a 3 or 4 way RCD con unit which are about £20 quid and run all lights through this sub or run your sockets from the small unit with due configuration and space availabillity.
Regards
Antric
 02 November 2013 05:45 AM
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maltrefor

Posts: 124
Joined: 01 November 2009

Use RCBO's and Mk 5567s Retro Fit Kit - if you can locate someone that still has them as MK no longer supply them.
 02 November 2013 02:30 PM
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BrucieBonus

Posts: 755
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Maltrefor - Can't seem to track them down, I do have a 5563s though with bus bar - will it just swap this over?
 02 November 2013 04:43 PM
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maltrefor

Posts: 124
Joined: 01 November 2009

Originally posted by: BrucieBonus

Maltrefor - Can't seem to track them down, I do have a 5563s though with bus bar - will it just swap this over?


You need the adaptor in the kit to take off the supply from the original bus bar and the adaptor for the new bus bar which allows 3 units to be fitted and if more are required use your new MK5511s bus bar.

Somebody on this forum must have a spare kit ?


http://img-europe.electrocompo...eimages/R381571-01.jpg
 02 November 2013 08:45 PM
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MrOther

Posts: 539
Joined: 08 June 2010

20/25mm pvc conduit coupler or variation on similar theme to a little plexo box, with RCBOs, or RCD leaving a couple of spare ways for future expansion? Or stick all the lighting circuits in there make it a separate little board just for lighting.

That way you'll be improving what is there (discrimination wise), cheapish, satisfy the need for additional protection, whilst leaving a couple of spare ways for future expansion.
 03 November 2013 07:26 PM
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BrucieBonus

Posts: 755
Joined: 20 February 2007

Maltrefor - Hmmm, it's a double height board (bottom bus bar RCD protected), so could I just add an RCD after the main switch on the top bus bar making it like a dual split???

(Edit - posting after a few glasses of vino, so sorry if this is mad idea...)
 03 November 2013 08:15 PM
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JohnWestBear

Posts: 1
Joined: 03 November 2013

Do what MrOther posted. Just run a Sub Board from a MCB on the main board and it gives you a bit of future play ability as well. Not ideal but does the job.

Or quote for a replacement of the board altogether, depending on circumstance / cost etc.
 03 November 2013 09:42 PM
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maltrefor

Posts: 124
Joined: 01 November 2009

Originally posted by: BrucieBonus

Maltrefor - Hmmm, it's a double height board (bottom bus bar RCD protected), so could I just add an RCD after the main switch on the top bus bar making it like a dual split???



(Edit - posting after a few glasses of vino, so sorry if this is mad idea...)


Probably so but I cannot remember what the output terminals of the main switch are like but if pin type problem solved but of course you will lose 2 MCB ways.
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