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Topic Title: BT refuse to run new line in side house down to study...What reg is this contravening.
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Created On: 31 October 2013 11:33 PM
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 31 October 2013 11:33 PM
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antric2

Posts: 1055
Joined: 20 October 2006

Evening all,
We are on a high end new build.Customer asked BT not to run black cable down the white rendered wall to the downstairs study.
Customer asked if they could run it through the wall just under the gutter, into the top floor and down to the ground floor study.They refused and said ask if your electrician can run it in and it cannot be plastered over as it contravenes regs, it has to be surface mounted.....news to me!!

What regs!!!
The house is boarded and ready to plaster. Customer obviously doesnt want black cable inside the house down the walls.
If its in the zones what is wrong with plastering it over.

Also, we said to customer,tell BT we will do it for them but it will cost £600. off their bill...the reply was....we dont charge to install the line!!
BT giving something free...I think not.
Sounds like a right cop out from BT who dont want to do it.
Any opinions or similar experiences please.
Regards
Antric
Sorry, forgot to add that customer isnt happy to have cable run behind downpipe and doesnt want Virgin which would be underground.
BT wont fit cable underground.
 31 October 2013 11:37 PM
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Banners

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Awkward customers
 31 October 2013 11:39 PM
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antric2

Posts: 1055
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Originally posted by: Banners

Awkward customers

To a point yes, but they are doing this high spec luxury house to sell and dont want the cable running down the front corner of the house but BT are really being jobsworths on this job from what I can gather from customer......and I know there are two sides of every story but what reg is being contravened.
Regards
Antric
 31 October 2013 11:47 PM
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sparkingchip

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Plastic conduit buried in the wall or put the master socket in the loft.
 31 October 2013 11:52 PM
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Banners

Posts: 115
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Tongue in cheek response. BT guys probably have list of jobs to get done in a day and must reach targets etc etc. In addition the installers might not want to get implicated into an argument regarding supposed/real/imagined.... damage to property. At the end of the day they regard their job as functional and not artistic (to a degree). I have no opinion either way but I do sort of understand the BT guys perspective.
 01 November 2013 12:12 AM
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antric2

Posts: 1055
Joined: 20 October 2006

Originally posted by: Banners

Tongue in cheek response. BT guys probably have list of jobs to get done in a day and must reach targets etc etc. In addition the installers might not want to get implicated into an argument regarding supposed/real/imagined.... damage to property. At the end of the day they regard their job as functional and not artistic (to a degree). I have no opinion either way but I do sort of understand the BT guys perspective.


Hiya Banners,
I do agree with you and fully understand what the BT lads have to acheive in a day as I was an FSE myself with minimum call target rate per day.
What I am still not understanding is why BT and not the guys doing the work,have told customer that it breaks regs to have BT cable plastered over....what reg is it please...anyone.

The loft space is minimal and are all vaulted ceilings but presume there will have to be a loft hatch somewhere. Customer wants master socket in study down stairs....but I will suggest loft to customer as that is a good idea,sparking chip then I can run extension cable behind the boarding before its plastered.
Regards
Antric
 01 November 2013 01:04 AM
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DOUGIE1000

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Let them install it and once they gone move the cable into the loft and wire from there, done it lots of times.

-------------------------
Dougie
Power Plus Electrical.co.uk

My mission is to live as long as possible......so far so good!
 01 November 2013 07:01 AM
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Rulland

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If, like sky etc, they use the 'health and safety' cop out, then they won't even work in a loft space, especially a reduced loft space!.
I ran my dish cabling from up and down and left it adjacent to the loft hatch, Sky wouldn't even just stand on the steps and do the joints, in the end I had to do it, but it was very nearly 'you can't have sky because you aren't allowed to do our joints' , jobs worth and pedantic tbh.

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Those who make no mistakes do very little work!!......
 01 November 2013 07:19 AM
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aligarjon

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I usually run a cable to the external wall at high level and they fit an external box to join their cable to. The master is where ever you have wired that first leg to.

Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 01 November 2013 07:20 AM
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jj4091

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Where is the pole that the cable is coming from? If it is on the boundary & you instal ducting from the base of the pole leaving a draw wire through it the they will instal it underground, in fact they supplied me with 2" ducting & elbows & bungs free of charge.
 01 November 2013 07:25 AM
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aligarjon

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Originally posted by: jj4091

Where is the pole that the cable is coming from? If it is on the boundary & you instal ducting from the base of the pole leaving a draw wire through it the they will instal it underground, in fact they supplied me with 2" ducting & elbows & bungs free of charge.


Yes I had the same at home, they supplied it all free of charge.
it sounds to me like a lack of planning by the builder.Also it did cost next to nothing to have it done.

Gary

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Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 01 November 2013 08:13 AM
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bajb

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To answer the OP, perhaps the reg they are talking about is 522.6.101? (Cables concealed in walls)
 01 November 2013 09:29 AM
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ectophile

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To be pedantic, it will be Openreach doing the install. They are owned by BT, but operated independently of BT retail (the bit customers deal with).

There's normally a standard £130 charge by Openreach for an install. However, if you buy a package deal, then BT will often foot the bill themselves. They plan on getting the money back during the minimum 12 or 18 month contract.

I'm not surprised Openreach don't want to bury the cable. They remain responsible for maintaining everything up to the master socket. That's going to be difficult if the cable is buried in a wall and totally inaccessible.

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S P Barker BSc PhD MIET
 01 November 2013 12:24 PM
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allaway

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Why not get BT to take the cable into the attic and fit the master socket there? You can then run as much Cat5e or CW1308 to wherever it is needed in the house from that point.

BT has responsibility up to the Master Socket - so if you bury the cables and it fails BT will repair it but not be responsible for any repair to plaster or decor. That is the primary reason they do not want cable buried. This is a documented process and all BT Techs are taught this. They will not drill an internal wall because of the potential for damage - yes it sounds petty but comes fro experience.

It is also worth noting that BTs external cable should not be used inside a building - there is a maximum length that is permitted and internal cable is not suitable for external use - it breaks down on exposure to sunlight. BTs internal cable is normally White and not black.
 01 November 2013 01:48 PM
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ectophile

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I wouldn't really recommend a master socket in the loft.

If you ever have a problem with your phone or broadband, the call centre will ask you to plug the phone or broadband router directly into the master socket, to make sure it's not your phone extension that's gone bad. If you call the engineer out and it turns out to be your wiring, you will get hit with a big call-out fee. So you really want the master socket somewhere accessible.

If you want to upgrade your broadband to the few fibre-to-the-cabinet (FTTC, branded by BT as "Infinity"), then the new modem must be plugged into the master socket, not an extension. That leaves you with ultra-fast broadband in your loft, which isn't a lot of use.

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S P Barker BSc PhD MIET
 01 November 2013 02:09 PM
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allaway

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Originally posted by: ectophile

I wouldn't really recommend a master socket in the loft.



If you ever have a problem with your phone or broadband, the call centre will ask you to plug the phone or broadband router directly into the master socket, to make sure it's not your phone extension that's gone bad. If you call the engineer out and it turns out to be your wiring, you will get hit with a big call-out fee. So you really want the master socket somewhere accessible.



If you want to upgrade your broadband to the few fibre-to-the-cabinet (FTTC, branded by BT as "Infinity"), then the new modem must be plugged into the master socket, not an extension. That leaves you with ultra-fast broadband in your loft, which isn't a lot of use.


My master are located in an attic. The Infinity modem is adjacent and that feeds the router through Cat5e. It also reduces teh amount of local noise picked up on the cables between entry to te house and modem which can seriously adversely affect the speeds on both ADSL and VDSL products.

So, my ultrafast broadband is available throughout the house.


As for testing. Easy enough to access and plug in directly.
 01 November 2013 07:11 PM
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AncientMariner

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My BT Master socket is also in the loft. Has been since 2002. When we rewired same year, had CAT5 cable from loft to my study as well as telephone. With ADSL my modem-router was in the loft with just one CAT5 connected which ran to a network switch in my study and thence to 15 CAT5 sockets around the house. As did VoIP phone cables from modem-router and a fax line from a Callsign unit. Now on FTTC, had absolutely no problems with BTOR who fitted faceplate filter and interstitial plate and VDSL modem in loft. My new router, again with VoIP, is mounted next to it.

Be nice to the BTOR boys, have tea/coffee and decent biscuits ready!

Cheers!

Clive

-------------------------
Clive S Carver GCGI IEng MIET
 01 November 2013 07:28 PM
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antric2

Posts: 1055
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...........it sounds to me like a lack of planning by the builder.



Gary


Thank you all for your input.

Gary,you have hit the nail on the head.
Self builder who despite being a very nice bloke is an absolute nightmare to work with as when things like this BT problem ariseses it is always us that are asked for solutions right now!!!!! .He is building another one right next to this one when its finished but if he doesnt learn and plan from this we will walk away from it cos we are at end of our tether already.
Regards
Antric
 16 April 2014 05:33 PM
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gervie

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Originally posted by: bajb

To answer the OP, perhaps the reg they are talking about is 522.6.101? (Cables concealed in walls)



For sure many still do this,, or purposes of they are running from whatever charges they might be have or pay nothing at all.

Cheers,
Gervie
"works at [url]Link removed/interior-doors/glass-doors[/url]"
 16 April 2014 10:31 PM
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AncientMariner

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My Master socket, FTTC Modem, Router with VoIP and Wireless + CallSign Fax Switch and a PABX all live happily in our loft. CAT5 run to network switch in study, thence to Network sockets and Wireless Access Point and from PABX CW1308 to many phone sockets.

All works according to plan.

Cheers!

Clive

-------------------------
Clive S Carver GCGI IEng MIET
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