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Topic Title: HNC building services engineering mathematics
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Created On: 28 October 2013 03:51 PM
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 28 October 2013 03:51 PM
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Marc118

Posts: 4
Joined: 07 March 2013

Hi all,

I recently started a HNC building services, distant learning and my first module was engineering mathematics.

I'm slowly working my way through the book but it just feels never ending. There's over 1200 pages and at the rate I'm going it will take me years just to complete the maths module!!

Surely I don't need to know everything from the book?

Would anyone have a list of the type of maths that I would need? I've read somewhere that I don't need to go overboard in trig but how much is overboard? I've got the SOH CAH TOA and sine and cosines rules sorted but there's so much more in the book on trigonometry it's untrue.

Thanks in advance

Marc
 28 October 2013 04:18 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19469
Joined: 23 March 2004

I don't know what text book you are using, but what you need (as a reference for equivalent topics) is a copy of Higher Engineering Maths by John Bird.

You need to have a good grasp on everything from algebra to Fourier analysis with a decent grasp of calculus to go with it.

Don't let the maths beat you - I struggled with it personally, and if you don't get a good grasp on it first thing, everything you do will be an uphill stuggle - trust me.

Concentrate on the maths, then concentrate some more - you will need a good grip on it all

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 28 October 2013 06:23 PM
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Legh

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I'm not sure what level of math you understand but I personally think that Fourier Analysis, double Integration, Partial differentation at HNC/D level is a bit over top but a grasp of A-Level maths and all it encompasses for the first year and an application to fix the basic elements in place for the second year. might be a more reasonable expectation

As I see it the jump from the level 2 maths taught on the electrical installation courses up to 2396 to engineering maths is giant....

The BTEC OND should provide the A-level infill, but it only covers the areas directly applicable to engineering so there's sections within the syllabus missing.

However,
My suggestion as an example, would be to explore the applications that need maths which you already know and then develop it from there such as polar coordinates / vector forces found in balanced three phase loads then look at the maths when the loads aren't balanced.

Start with scaled drawings and then develop the maths by starting with Pythagoras then J notation and build up your knowledge by solving the same problem using different levels of maths.

Another example might be feeder circuits and volt drops and loading in radial circuits then develop this into rings and the use of simultaneous equations (still level 2). All those things that we were supposed to have learnt at 12-14....and then we have different orders of polynomials.

As an aside, Did you know that you can land an airplane by using the difference of two squares? not that I've ever tried

Once you start to grasp one thing you'll get more interested...

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 28 October 2013 06:57 PM
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Talex

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Joined: 05 September 2013

The Supplemental Resources provided by MIT's OpenCourseWare project (MIT OCW) contains material on mathematics covered, in part, by the aforementioned Bird publication. I would specifically recommend the last three listed programmes taught by Herbert Gross. You have the option of entirely avoiding his lecture notes, exercise sets, supplementary notes and study guide references (based on George B. Thomas's Calculus), and limiting your attention to his video lectures. They were produced in the late 1960s, done in monochrome, and are truly exemplary lectures which in my opinion will still be being watched in fifty years.

I say all that without passing comment on the syllabus of the HNC or the degree of prior learning it assumes or requires.

Legh,

"Did you know that you can land an airplane by using the difference of two squares? not that I've ever tried"

I'm curious. Are you at liberty to disclose this particular trade secret?
 28 October 2013 07:05 PM
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GeoffBlackwell

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Would anyone have a list of the type of maths that I would need?


No because it depends on the requirements of the particular course.

I taught HNC/D from 1985 to around 2005. These were BTEC or SCOTVEC courses - both college based and distance learning. The content of the 'modern' HNCs I taught varied widely. Some were classed as 'academic' whilst others were not. The difference was mainly in the mathematical content.

You should consult your course tutor for advice.

For academic courses, and also for first year degree, the books by K A Stroud - Engineering Mathematics, Further Engineering Mathematics, Fourier Series and Harmonic Analysis and Laplace Transformations - are a good starter.

For courses with less mathematical rigour your tutor would be able to recommend suitable books.

Regards

Geoff Blackwell
 28 October 2013 09:04 PM
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perspicacious

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Marc

From my 1978 HNC final exams after two years of day release from 09:00 till 21:00.....

36 minutes to answer each of these:

Electrical Machines and Control Engineering:

Compare the effects on the accuracy and stability of a closed loop position controller when compensated by; (a) A Phase Advance Network, (b) Negative velocity feedback. A servomechanism with a total moment of inertia of 0.06 kg-m2 and stiffness of 15 N-m/rad error has a viscous friction constant of 0.3 N-m per rad per sec, all being referred to the output shaft. The system is to have a damping ratio of 0.5. Design a phase advance network to achieve this performance.

Power Engineering:

A short three-phase transmission line of resistance 2 Ohm and inductive reactance of 6 Ohm per conductor is designed to operate with a constant receiving end voltage of 33 kV. (a) Construct a line chart and use it to determine the receiving end power factor when the current supplied is 800 A and the sending-end voltage is 40.5 kV. (b) If a phase modifier taking 36 MVAr is connected in parallel with the load, determine (i) the sending-end voltage (ii) the conductor current(iii)the reduction, if any, in the line losses.

Electrical and electronic principles:

A carbon microphone is subjected to a sinusoidal sound wave of angular frequency w. As a result the instantaneous microphone resistance is given by r = 100 (1 + 0.1 sin w t). If the steady state supply voltage is 20 V, calculate (a) the approximate peak value of the fundamental current component and (b) the percentage second harmonic distortion in the current. Explain briefly how the microphone could be operated so as to avoid harmonic distortion.

Mathematics:

Not enough symbols to even try and type out a sample question.

Regards

BOD
 29 October 2013 08:13 AM
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Legh

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Joined: 17 December 2004

"Did you know that you can land an airplane by using the difference of two squares? not that I've ever tried"

I'm curious. Are you at liberty to disclose this particular trade secret?


Its not, AFAIK, a secret since i found this curiouso on Google/ Youtube. Unfortunately, the article now eludes me.
When i can find it again, or perhaps work it out for myself, I'll post it.

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 29 October 2013 06:47 PM
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Marc118

Posts: 4
Joined: 07 March 2013

Thanks ever so much for all of the replies.

The book I'm using is engineering mathematics by Anthony Croft and Robert Davidson . I also have the K Stroud book but my tutor sent me that book with the course. I mostly use the Anthony. Croft book but it does seem to go a bit fast sometimes and skip things, then I have to search the net or you tube for the answers.
By the sounds of it then there is no short cut and I'll have to keep working my way through it very slowly...... The way I'm going I'll be retired before it's finished..
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