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Topic Title: EICR
Topic Summary: Polish Follow Up
Created On: 14 October 2013 07:40 PM
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 14 October 2013 07:40 PM
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Ampman

Posts: 1030
Joined: 06 February 2006

Evening ,

Received a call today to see if i can do a test on a rented property ,

Went round had a see ,

Noticed cables had been chopped in the ceiling that were concrete and polyfilled in , to lights etc....

Also a lot of 3 core cable has been used with the grey core left floating every where no earth sleeving etc... .

ends up a polish guy has wired a lot of it . & landlord fell out with him .

I really dont wants this job , i get a feeling i will find loads wrong .

Yet i get the feeling that landlord wants a clean cert .

No Chance
 14 October 2013 08:22 PM
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leckie

Posts: 1963
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It's a report, report what you see, not what the client wants to see. Like an MOT.
 14 October 2013 08:32 PM
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jsa986

Posts: 472
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Not sure why you mentioned the original sparkies ethnic origin? Thats is irrelevant . Would you have mentioned it if an english electrician had done the work???

As Leckie said your assessing whats already there, what the issue? Doesn't matter what the landlord wants with regards result, your assessing against the regs nothing more nothing less.

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 14 October 2013 09:03 PM
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microy

Posts: 360
Joined: 25 October 2005

I would have thought that the ethnic origin was very relevant. Also I would question the motives of the landlord in employing him. Did the Pole certify the work? Was it the Council or the LABC who asked for the report?Just don't hand over the report until you are paid.

Mike
 14 October 2013 09:24 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3217
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ditto everything above.

The very worst jobs i have ever seen have been by poles, IMHO and experience. Thats a fact based on my own observations. If the worst jobs id have seen were by blue martians, then i would state that. It is what it is.

Personally, id tell them to get someone else, or get paid the minute i walk through the door.

You could just say you could do him a visual inspection for less money (and you get paid for doing nothing more than a form) as its a unsatisfactory. Personally i dont like the whole visual only inspection thing, but whats the point in this case?

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 14 October 2013 09:24 PM
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leckie

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Perhaps you could explain a bit more why you think the installers ethnic background has any relevance to how you would carry out an EICR? I haven't seen it in BS7671
 14 October 2013 09:39 PM
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microy

Posts: 360
Joined: 25 October 2005

Poles and Landlords. What a combination!

Mike
 14 October 2013 10:03 PM
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benf0511

Posts: 8
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Do the report and note all issues. Then it's in the landlords hands. Sounds like you have a conscience. Then you've done your job properly.
No wonder they fell out. Like PeteTML said do a visual. Sound like you'll find a c1 or 2 just doing that. Then state these need rectifying before any testing can proceed. Bs7671 134.1.1
 14 October 2013 11:09 PM
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jsa986

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Microy what an offensive couple of posts you have made there. Making an assumption or generalised statement based on where someone is born has no place I'm modern society and is offensive to the people you direct your comments and people who may come across this post.

Pete- so you have not encountered bad workmanship by English electricians? Or are you choosing not to include that demographic for some reason

Secong Leckies comments, where does BS7671 mention ethnic backgrounds?

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 14 October 2013 11:55 PM
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impvan

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Well JSA, I'm sure all those people Microy has 'directed comments' towards are very grateful to you for being offended on their behalf.

I'm lucky enough to have three 'ethnicities' in my blood - and I don't need anyone being offended for ME thank you very much; nor do i suffer under the illusion that 'cos i'm not pure-bred english that i have some right to never feel offended.

As for origin, i too see PROPORTIONATELY more crap work done by eastern -europeans. A Romanian guy (real Romanian, not Roma) I have shared sites with since he escaped Ceaucescu's regime will freely admit being one of the worst electricians you'll ever meet ~ and before you get offended on all romanians' behalf as well, I can introduce you to him; he'll agree himself (he has in fact been on here a few times). And he's not alone ~ he's two cousins working in Leeds who aspire to be as bad and as expensive as he is.

Capable of excellent work if you're actually sat on his shoulder, if you turn your back it's "Safe? course it's safe Jacko, it works dunnit?" He's been like that for 20 years, bends conduit round his knee with the wires still in it, never wanted to understand earthing cos things still work without it, and seems genetically immune to 240V** tickles.

Another excellent domestic sparks near me is 3rd generation Polish (grandparents came here as ex-PoWs) and 3rd generation Electrician, and even HE slags off the later polish 'imports'.

(correction - in the interests of euro-ethnic inclusivity, 230V).
 15 October 2013 09:25 AM
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zeeper

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bad workmanship by English electricians?


How would you define English.

Do they have to live in the country for 5 years.
 15 October 2013 10:15 AM
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jsa986

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@ Impvan your missing the point. Quality electrical work has nothing to do with where someone is born and everything to do with the individual. Also who said I was offended on your behalf? I really do not care if you are offended or not. Your self righteous comments aside, i find it unbelievable you speak for a whole race of people and there skills in electrical works. Ignorant at best

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 15 October 2013 12:39 PM
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psychicwarrior

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@ jsa - i had to contribute without wishing to fan any flames I might add...because issues like this get out of hand and some peoples overly concerned with this kind of subject have changed the whole landscape into negatively affecting open free speech, discussion, humour and comment by getting on the 'racist', 'racially offensive' stance all too easily at the slightest opening.

i read the OP without any extrapolation, as someone just commenting a Polish guy had wired the lot. I really don't see anything objectionable in that. It's just someone making a descriptive comment in general chat, that it was said a Polish guy did it.

I do not think anyone should have to censure their speech to that extent as you allude - here or any where. I'm not being naive either by saying that; I do realise that eastern europeans (and others) - statistically correctly or incorrectly - do come in for some flack over their supposed 'impact' at times in this country in some quarters and some do form and express some views. It would also be folly to generalise that all Polish (or others) are bad at what they do.

what annoys me is how sensitive some seem to get and in the end its got in the way of ordinary life, negatively, in a lot of respects in my opinion.

lets not hijack this forum/thread and turn it into a debate (but even i am joining in now...duh) over offence at supposed offensive racist comments (when they are clearly not) .....please. i think one would know if anything said was truly offensive; if its an irrelevant point to have been made in your opinion for it to have been mentioned, then fair enough, but even that could be argued to be irrelevant to the OP in that it was about whether to get involved in EICR etc..... and in the end, all of what i've just said could be irrelevant too (probably is).

stiff upper lip chaps
 15 October 2013 01:15 PM
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jsa986

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@PysicWarrior I totally disagree with you.

"It's just someone making a descriptive comment in general chat"

Ok so why the need to mention his country of origin? is it the norm to mention every sparks country of origin in this forum. No, i think we both know why it was mentioned. It was alluding to a derogatory statement about eastern European electricians and you are defending that. Threre is nothing that you can write that can excuse prejudice. Maybe you think making a comment about a whole countries skills at electrical contracting in this country in a negative way is irrelevant, I do not.

"I really don't see anything objectionable in that. It's just someone making a descriptive comment in general chat, that it was said a Polish guy did it. ,someone just commenting a Polish guy had wired the lot."

Really? the title says "Polish follow up" Thats not a descriptive comment thats headline mentions a country/race of people! Im also interested how the OP knows the country of origin of the original spark. Its highly unusual for a spark to state where he has born on any certificate of invoice. Could it be a generalised lazy stereotype remark for anyone from eastern Europe?

I do agree with you on free speech, and I shall challenge something if i feel i think its correct to do so.

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Edited: 15 October 2013 at 01:22 PM by jsa986
 16 October 2013 02:19 PM
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Corona

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Joined: 16 October 2013

Hello all, I'm new on here and read this topic as I have come across similar issues on site. It is unfair to pool all eastern Europeans into the dodgy category but they work cheap and as the saying goes "you get what you pay for". I have contracted for some major firms who have insisted on checking my JIB card and qualifications before they let me loose on site, this is because false ID for most trades is available to those who know how to get it.

Standards of work can range from very acceptable to shockingly poor with site agents being ignorant of the consequences, but if the books balance and it works their happy.
I've had one agent pontificating about never employing a British spark again because their too slow whilst showing me a large MCC panel (which was neatly done) until I pointed out that not one of the several hundred cable connections had any ID markings, the commissioning engineer dried his teeth and refused to accept the handover. I was only there to install some control and telemetry for a few days and ended up sorting the lot out which took me about 3 weeks daywork to put right.

On other sites, once you get past the language barrier and casual tool misplacement, these guys will work very hard and it takes a while to get them in to the idea of quality work means NO SHORTCUTS. Just think and appreciate the situations they have come from in their home countries, accept it and carry on.

Oh and never leave Latvians and Poles unattended for more than 5 minutes, there will be a mahoosive argument/punch up.

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 16 October 2013 09:54 PM
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leckie

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Well Corona, I'll drink to that, lemonade or ginger beer. Sorry you have to be old to know what I'm on about!
 16 October 2013 10:25 PM
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Zs

Posts: 3008
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The Corona man....I think my mum used to fancy him Leckie

Careful guys; I once had a written IET warning for mentioning the country of origin.

Self-Policing forum in action? maybe let it go?

But Ampman, take that job and report on what you find just as you always would. An I&T worth getting out of bed for. No clean cert until it is worthy of a clean cert.

Zs
 17 October 2013 09:57 AM
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jsa986

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Hi Corona welcome to the forum, and some interesting points expressed there.

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 19 October 2013 08:44 AM
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tomgunn

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I think its alright to mention where they come from... I didnt invite them here but they are here now. I went to look at a house that I was interested in buying at Hastings - looking around the outside I noticed a 15 amp JB screwed to the outside wall and running down with some T&E to an ordinary 1 gang switch and I asked who did that and the chap said that he had someone renting a room and he was Polish and said that he was an electrician... I find that the Polish people are hard working but I feel that what I have come across, and seen myself, is that the 'finish' isnt there... bearing in mind that I have nothing against Poles... as my ex girlfriend, for 12 years, is Polish and all that I have met are very nice and generous people!

Tom

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