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Topic Title: ELECTRICAL REGISTERS
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Created On: 03 September 2013 04:09 PM
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 04 September 2013 09:01 AM
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marclambert

Posts: 304
Joined: 23 June 2010

Originally posted by: John Peckham

David



Yes. I have long suggested the IET should maintain a register of members who are qualified to inspect and test. I am not sure who to speak to inside the IET to take up this suggestion.


Whilst I do agree with John and David and I know it's nit picking, but do you mean "qualified" or do you mean "competent"? As I'm sure you're aware BS7671 does not include qualification as a requirement of competence.
Uh oh a new can of worms!
regards
Marc
 04 September 2013 09:08 AM
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Legh

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As I'm sure you're aware BS7671 does not include qualification as a requirement of competence.

Uh oh a new can of worms!


It does refer to ' possesses sufficient technical knowledge' which one would assume means proof of knowledge. There are some who have built up this knowledge over a period of years on the tools but its more likely to be some form of awarded qualification - the fast route - lol

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

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"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 04 September 2013 09:17 AM
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Legh

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NAPIT may register other categories, but the Electric Safe register is only open part P registered installers.

If JP so wishes he could join NAPIT as an Inspector of domestic installations. With his experience, he could probably register as an installer. for the same fee - lol

JP would have to have an example of domestic installation work.


With all his hands on I&T, I'm sure JP can now wire up a plug and socket....



Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 04 September 2013 09:20 AM
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marclambert

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For sure Legh, we'd all feel better stood in the dock being able to wave our 2391s etc. All I was saying was that if you get involved with legislation, the language should be accurate. If you mean qualified fine, if you mean competent (which may or may not need a bit of paper) then also fine.
Sorry I'm getting anal about the terminology, been teaching C&G courses for too long I guess.
Have you checked out some of the stuff in the chief examiners reports for 2394/5 lately? You'll see what I mean.
regards
Marc
 04 September 2013 09:30 AM
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John Peckham

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For peoples information and for the avoidance of doubt I can do installation work but I chose not to. Now and again I do a bit for family and friends. Often I turn up on site to I&T a job for a contractor who tells me the job is ready for test but is not quiet ready so I have been know to do a bit to finish the job. Earlier this year, due to shortages of lecturers at college, I even went in to the workshop and taught a bit of conduit strangling to a group of young hopefuls. I can put a plug on the end of a bit of flex.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 04 September 2013 09:37 AM
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Legh

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Have you checked out some of the stuff in the chief examiners reports for 2394/5 lately? You'll see what I mean.


No i haven't, but I assume that you are referring to 'the use of correct terminology'?

Whats new? This has been a topic of registered feedback for just about every 2391 exam.

It has even been adopted in the reviewed 'debate'....'Brand' as opposed to 'Scheme'

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 04 September 2013 10:17 AM
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marclambert

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" Few candidates correctly titled the standard form "Electrical Installation Condition Report Schedule of Inspections" as different from the schedule used for initial verification".

I quote from the June 2012 report.

Yes Legh it is that old correct terminology one, but really
When asked most people would say the paperwork required was 1)Electrical Installation Condition Report 2) Schedule of Inspections 3) Schedule of Test Results = 3 marks.
Apparently not?

John, I don't think anyone on here doubts your abilities in the slightest. Personally I hate wiring plugs, especially with anyone watching!
regard
Marc
 04 September 2013 11:24 AM
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John Peckham

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Marc

Yes I know what you mean about people watching you terminate a 13A plug. I have to do this on a training session I run for a well known department store staff. I demo how to do the task and talk the audience through the finer points whilst they watch.

As for not knowing the correct titles for forms I have a "PIR" on my desk at the moment completed recently by a registered contractor. In addition to not using the correct form the entries demonstrate extreme incompetence. Can't say more at the moment as it is a prosecution case.

In between tasks are am revising my slides for a 2396 Design course I start a couple of weeks. Although not in the syllabus I am putting in some principles for the 1st week as I know I can improve students learning and chance of passing the exam if they have a foundation of electrical principles. I do hammer home the point of using the correct terminology in answer exam questions. I demonstrate my point by pointing to the accessory supplying the flex to the overhead projector and asking what it is. Most students say "fused spur".

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 04 September 2013 12:20 PM
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Zoro

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In 2012 the highest paid employee of the Electrical Safety Councils organisation was, £489,133.
Not very charitable

The Schemes do not legally Certify that their members or registrants are Competent, Qualified or Electricians, this is why they believe that they can set low standards and get away with it.

As to the Whitehall farce last Monday, you can see that the Parliamentary Select Committee has had enough of the propaganda and devious complexity, of companies, committees and double speak.

A Gas Safe style system is the only solution, we fund Part P so why not. I do not believe a word of the, it will cost £2000 a year instead of £408 and £444.
 04 September 2013 12:51 PM
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marclambert

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John,
Did you have anyone in the June 2394/5 exams?
I'm well pleased that my group of 15 did really well. 77% pass for 2395 and 80% for 2394. Best I've had and a credit to the candidate's hard work. I expect they did use the correct terminology most of the time! No Meggas or IR testers
Trumpet blowing over
regards
Marc
 04 September 2013 01:48 PM
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John Peckham

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Marc

My students did the 2394 exam in July but I don't have the results yet. I am college this afternoon enrolling for September so may get them if anyone is in the exams office.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 04 September 2013 02:27 PM
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John Peckham

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Zoro

I cannot believe that anyone is pulling a salary of £489K in the ESC? Having seen the video of their presentation to parliament and their stressing of their role as a charity helping the old and the vulnerable I think if your figure is true they are applying the old adage of "charity begins at home"

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 04 September 2013 03:03 PM
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Zoro

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Originally posted by: John Peckham

Zoro



I cannot believe that anyone is pulling a salary of £489K in the ESC? Having seen the video of their presentation to parliament and their stressing of their role as a charity helping the old and the vulnerable I think if your figure is true they are applying the old adage of "charity begins at home"


Well that's what their accounts state.
 04 September 2013 04:03 PM
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kj scott

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Originally posted by: Legh

NAPIT may register other categories, but the Electric Safe register is only open part P registered installers.



If JP so wishes he could join NAPIT as an Inspector of domestic installations. With his experience, he could probably register as an installer. for the same fee - lol

JP would have to have an example of domestic installation work.


With all his hands on I&T, I'm sure JP can now wire up a plug and socket....



Legh


Legh,
I was not questioning JP's ability to register as a domestic installer, more the nonsense of having to register as an installer to be recognised in a domestic register as competent to inspect and report. Of course I have my own agenda in this as I am also in the same position, not wishing to contract in the domestic installation market. This means paying an inflated fee, for work that you do not wish to compete for, just to be seen on the register as competent.

-------------------------
http://www.niceic.biz
 04 September 2013 04:26 PM
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Legh

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Originally posted by: kj scott

Originally posted by: Legh

NAPIT may register other categories, but the Electric Safe register is only open part P registered installers.


If JP so wishes he could join NAPIT as an Inspector of domestic installations. With his experience, he could probably register as an installer. for the same fee - lol

JP would have to have an example of domestic installation work.


With all his hands on I&T, I'm sure JP can now wire up a plug and socket....
[IMG][/IMG]

Legh


Legh,
I was not questioning JP's ability to register as a domestic installer, more the nonsense of having to register as an installer to be recognised in a domestic register as competent to inspect and report. Of course I have my own agenda in this as I am also in the same position, not wishing to contract in the domestic installation market. This means paying an inflated fee, for work that you do not wish to compete for, just to be seen on the register as competent.


Lol.... I remember doing a micro-teach on my PGCE and the feedback was,
'you chose one of the three most popular practical subjects and you managed to demonstrate how to wire a plug without actually doing anything practical.!'

I'm glad she found it vaguely amusing, I couldn't see the problem myself

You might consider dumping your present scheme and change to a more reasonable scheme operator such as NAPIT and then you'd be registered for all types of work, which includes I&T at no extra cost

Legh

-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 04 September 2013 04:39 PM
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kj scott

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Originally posted by: John Peckham

Zoro

I cannot believe that anyone is pulling a salary of £489K in the ESC? Having seen the video of their presentation to parliament and their stressing of their role as a charity helping the old and the vulnerable I think if your figure is true they are applying the old adage of "charity begins at home"


It is true JP, £489,133 to be precise, and 17 employees got in excess of £60k, 6 in excess of £70k, 4 in excess of £80k, 5 in excess of £90k and 3 in excess of £100k. It is all published in their annual report for everyone to see. It has always been lucrative at the top of the pile, even in the old NICEIC days, a very charitable institution.
The reports make very interesting reading when you see who is involved as well. Many fingers; all having slices of a very large pie.

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http://www.niceic.biz
 04 September 2013 04:41 PM
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psychicwarrior

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i cant watch whatever is in the video it seems (you need silverlight by Micro$haft i think) - i use a better and safer system called Linux :-)

anyway, i think i get the jist from reading the posts - in that there is 'talk' of one central register/scheme etc.

well if that is the case then about time, because the current setup of the [many] CPS - all a money making scam - is just ridiculous as far as I am concerned.........said it from start of my relatively new and steady foray into the electrical industry.

rather than go on (there are other previous threads covering it), i'll leave it there......... cant see anything changing whilst the 'clubs' want to protect their power and interests.
 04 September 2013 04:51 PM
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kj scott

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Originally posted by: Legh

You might consider dumping your present scheme and change to a more reasonable scheme operator such as NAPIT and then you'd be registered for all types of work, which includes I&T at no extra cost [IMG][/IMG]

Legh


To be honest I am with the ECA for their medical cover, I don't really need to be registered at the moment; of course this could change. Even then I don't see NAPIT as a credible alternative at the moment, and they have no where near the technical resources or capability of the NICEIC/ESC/ ASERTIVA Group

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http://www.niceic.biz
 04 September 2013 07:21 PM
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davezawadi

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John
I will spend an hour or two tomorrow asking the questions. If I get anywhere I will send a PM.

Regards
David

-------------------------
David
CEng etc, don't ask, its a result not a question!
myurl
 04 September 2013 07:26 PM
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davezawadi

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Generally

I am unhappy that a "Charity" pays so much to staff who give a presentation as in the video. I particularly don't like the attempt to play politics with alleged safety concerns. It seems wrong to me that these probably self appointed ALLEGED experts give so much nonsense to the law makers. It is time that we had some proper representation.

Competence generally comes from both qualified and experienced persons. I certainly could not agree that either could be eliminated. 2391 is a tiny stepping stone on the path to a competent inspector in my view.

-------------------------
David
CEng etc, don't ask, its a result not a question!
myurl
IET » Wiring and the regulations » ELECTRICAL REGISTERS

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