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Topic Title: Help needed from an expert electrician please!
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Created On: 31 August 2013 01:14 PM
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 31 August 2013 01:14 PM
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JaiS

Posts: 1
Joined: 31 August 2013

Hello there,

What began as a simple kitchen refurb has turned into a bit of an electrical nightmare as we have discovered 30 year old wiring in the house alongside new wiring. I am sure there is a solution here but we have tried everything.

Here is the problem, if anyone can help or point me in the right direction that would be much appreciated as the electrics probably need condeming at this point.

This is for a property in Nottingham.

We have just upgraded the consumer unit from a very old wylex unit w?th the old fuse wire as the lights went off randomly and was advised by many electricians to upgrade unit so it meets new regs.

We have noticed there's no PME at all from main feed into the house and have wired all up to correct fuses but still no lights.

We checked all the terminal boxes under the floorboards and all the w?res are still connected.

Also the cooker every time we try and switch the oven or hob on it also trips the whole consumer unit out!

An electrician has been in and cannot f?gure out what the problem is!

Also wen tryIng to rew?re a new lighting circuit we came into a lot of old 1977 wiring running throughout the house but to nothing. Yet still connected to the current ones so we cannot f?gure out where there com?ng from.

The electrician has spent nearly 4 hours with a electro reader and cannot locate as they go to the ring main and he sa?d this dangerous as it means we have a free flow live.

Any ideas or questions or suggestions would be extremely helpful as we are a bit lost!

Thank you!

Jai
 31 August 2013 02:02 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7405
Joined: 23 April 2005

Jai

Welcome to the forum.

I assume you are the house owner?

When you say you have just upgraded the consumer unit did you have this work carried out my a registered electrician? I ask this because this particular electrical work is notifiable under the Building Regulations so should have been carried out by a registered electrician or the work should have been notified your Local Authority and they would have sent an appointed inspector to inspect and test the work. In any case whoever did the work should have given you an Electrical Installation Certificate, do have have this document?

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 31 August 2013 02:02 PM
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normcall

Posts: 8119
Joined: 15 January 2005

We have just upgraded the consumer unit from a very old wylex unit w?th the old fuse wire as the lights went off randomly and was advised by many electricians to upgrade unit so it meets new regs.

- Just replacing the fuse box will not resolve the fundamental problems. Prior to replacement, you should have had the wiring inspected and faults identified (as you admit problems). This work comes under the building regulations so either it should have been carried out by a 'registered' contractor or notified and inspected via the LABC system. A certificate would also have been issued.

We have noticed there's no PME at all from main feed into the house and have wired all up to correct fuses but still no lights.

- Not required, however the lights were working and after replacement fusebox they don't - obviously no connection then!

We checked all the terminal boxes under the floorboards and all the w?res are still connected.

- Who might have disconnected them?

Also the cooker every time we try and switch the oven or hob on it also trips the whole consumer unit out!

- This suggests that the contractor who replaced the fusebox didn't carry out basic tests to prevent this happening prior to replacement. Fairly obvious when you think about it.

An electrician has been in and cannot f?gure out what the problem is!

- Maybe it's the same electrician who replaced the fusebox so maybe not such a surprise.

Also wen tryIng to rew?re a new lighting circuit we came into a lot of old 1977 wiring running throughout the house but to nothing. Yet still connected to the current ones so we cannot f?gure out where there com?ng from.

- You may be surprised to know that cables can last much longer than 35 years these days, in fact most of the wiring in my house goes back to the 1960's. I have no intention of replacing it because the colours are not current and it would not take long to identify each end of each cable if I was that interested.

The electrician has spent nearly 4 hours with a electro reader and cannot locate as they go to the ring main and he sa?d this dangerous as it means we have a free flow live.

- May I suggest that you find a competent electrican?

Any ideas or questions or suggestions would be extremely helpful as we are a bit lost!

- I'm afraid that my powers of mind reading do not extend that distance (but I'm working on it strangely to reduce the distance from some 150 miles to 50 miles.

Thank you!

-------------------------
Norman
 31 August 2013 02:42 PM
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Phillron

Posts: 1171
Joined: 18 January 2007

I would suggest you redefine your assessment of the term Electrician, use industry standards to make that assessment

Then decide how you should follow the building regulations procedures before carrying out major electrical projects
Once you have engaged a "competent" Electrician the problem can be quickly identified and the remedial works commenced,
 31 August 2013 03:34 PM
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DOUGIE1000

Posts: 4164
Joined: 13 August 2005

You should have used a electrician to do works on your property. I cannot how a time served experiqnced sparky would have issues like this and couldnt fix this within the 4 hours.

If the job was inspected and tested then the issue of the problem lights and the PME would have been discovered long ago.

-------------------------
Dougie
Power Plus Electrical.co.uk

My mission is to live as long as possible......so far so good!
 31 August 2013 03:50 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3143
Joined: 31 March 2005

Hi Jai,

sorry to hear of your predicament.

Fixing stuff like this is bread and butter stuff, given experience and the right tools and knowledge. And as said before, all this should have been identified when the consumer unit was changed.

I dont know anyone on here from Nottingham, but maybe someone could put their hand up if its local to them?

P

-------------------------
----------------------------------------
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 31 August 2013 06:43 PM
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ebee

Posts: 5677
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It sounds like you need a competent person to discuss it with you and make a few tests.

Hopefully someone local to you will read this and assist.

I`m two and a half hours 115 miles away so I could not be cost effective to you as I`d need to charge for that before commencing.

Good luck, it sounds like a bit of sorting out is needed.

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 31 August 2013 10:09 PM
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largelunchbox

Posts: 365
Joined: 06 July 2008

simple one this, it needs a full rewire.
 31 August 2013 11:51 PM
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DOUGIE1000

Posts: 4164
Joined: 13 August 2005

and next door too

-------------------------
Dougie
Power Plus Electrical.co.uk

My mission is to live as long as possible......so far so good!
 01 September 2013 12:37 AM
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alancapon

Posts: 5760
Joined: 27 December 2005

Welcome to the forum Jai.

Originally posted by: JaiS
. . . We have just upgraded the consumer unit from a very old wylex unit w?th the old fuse wire as the lights went off randomly and was advised by many electricians to upgrade unit so it meets new regs. . .

Wylex rewireable fuses still meet the current regulations in many cases.

. . . We have noticed there's no PME at all from main feed into the house and have wired all up to correct fuses but still no lights. . .

PME is not always available, but this should have no effect on whether the lights work or not.

. . . Also the cooker every time we try and switch the oven or hob on it also trips the whole consumer unit out! . . .

It would seem that either the circuit to the cooker is incorrectly connected in the consumer unit, or there is a fault on the circuit / cooker. Either way, I would have expected a competent electrician to have carried out basic tests before changing the consumer unit that would have identified this problem. The testing following the new consumer unit being installed would also have identified the problem.

. . .An electrician has been in and cannot f?gure out what the problem is! . . .

You need to employ a competent electrician to sort this out. Although not a total guarantee, employing someone who belongs to one of the competent person schemes is a good start (ECA, NAPIT, NICEIC etc. )


Regards,

Alan.
 01 September 2013 06:37 AM
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ebee

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"was advised by many electricians"

Could you elaborate on this please?

and also

."An electrician has been in and cannot f?gure out what the problem is! ."

Was this the same Electrician who changed the consumer unit?

If not then why not?

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 01 September 2013 06:46 AM
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normcall

Posts: 8119
Joined: 15 January 2005

That must be the 'Many Electricians' having spent a few days trying to cross the channel or just the 'Many Electricians' having lost their 'real' job thought that as we make it look so easy say to themselves "I can do that!".

This 'Many Electricians' has spent over 40 years trying to make it look more difficult!

-------------------------
Norman
 01 September 2013 08:55 AM
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Jaymack

Posts: 4625
Joined: 07 April 2004

Originally posted by: JaiS
Any ideas or questions or suggestions would be extremely helpful as we are a bit lost!

Simples ....... contact your local trading standards, it may be possible by email, also your local building authority for part P infringement.

Regards
 01 September 2013 09:43 AM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7405
Joined: 23 April 2005

Jais


You can find a registered electrician here.

-------------------------
John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 01 September 2013 12:54 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3143
Joined: 31 March 2005

Originally posted by: John Peckham

Jais





You can find a registered electrician here.



Does seem to prefer Napit members. I put my business postcode in and it suggests i use a Napit member 4 miles away, rather than the Niceic one the postcode belongs to................

-------------------------
----------------------------------------
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 01 September 2013 01:54 PM
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geoffsd

Posts: 338
Joined: 15 June 2010

It IS a Napit organised site which was first and allows any scheme member to be included if they apply

unlike the later NICEIC/ECA site which does not allow Napit members.

More confusion for the public.
 01 September 2013 02:14 PM
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broadgage

Posts: 1282
Joined: 07 August 2007

There is nothing that complex about most domestic electric wiring.
If a number of "electricians" have not been able to get the installation working reliably that casts serious doubts about theire competance.

Finding faults is a relatively simple logical process.

If however the installation is clearly in poor condition then it may be a waste of effort locating and fixing multiple faults, rather than expending the money and effort on renewal.

The use of rewireable fuses is not totally prohibited, but is discouraged.

The need for a complete re-wire is suggested IMHO by the following
1) Rewireable fuses
2)Mulitple small consumer units
3) Rubber insulated or lead sheathed cables
4) Light gauge steel conduit not terminated in boxes
5) Unearthed lighting circuits
6) The regular blowing of fuses or tripping of MCBs without obvious cause

The presence of one or more of the above, does not absolutely prove that the premises should be re-wired, but it would be a strong indication.

Age alone is not a reliable indication. I have seen good qaulity installations from 40 years ago or more that remain servicable, and some newer ones that were definatly unsafe.
 01 September 2013 07:57 PM
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ebee

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Originally posted by: geoffsd

It IS a Napit organised site which was first and allows any scheme member to be included if they apply



unlike the later NICEIC/ECA site which does not allow Napit members.



More confusion for the public.


Well I`m in both registers.
So mmh mmh mmh mhher

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 01 September 2013 08:10 PM
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largelunchbox

Posts: 365
Joined: 06 July 2008

i dont think you should dis these so called electricians for not finding the fault ect, sometimes you get to a job and every light switch and light fittings has one cable only, so you cant isolate sections to try and focus on where the fault lies, its then a matter of having the house upside down trying to find all the joints under the floors of worse still buried in the plaster or concrete. it can be just as cost effective to rewire the circuit as to find the fault. just saying
 01 September 2013 09:00 PM
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geoffsd

Posts: 338
Joined: 15 June 2010

Originally posted by: ebee
Originally posted by: geoffsd
It IS a Napit organised site which was first and allows any scheme member to be included if they apply
unlike the later NICEIC/ECA site which does not allow Napit members.
More confusion for the public.


Well I`m in both registers.
So mmh mmh mmh mhher


Me too, so neither of us is with Napit, then.
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