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Topic Title: LUTRON PANEL
Topic Summary: RCD PROTECTION OF OUTGOING WAYS
Created On: 02 July 2013 10:39 PM
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 02 July 2013 10:39 PM
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John Peckham

Posts: 7253
Joined: 23 April 2005

I did a periodic today on a house with 2 large Lutron panels controlling the lighting. Among numerous other defects going in to the EICR will be the lack of supplementary bonding and RCD protection in the bathrooms and no RCD protection for the cables at a depth of less than 50mm in the walls.

The earth leakage for the 2 Luton panels is some 80mA which precludes fitting 30mA RCD protection to the inputs to the panels even if this would be effective at protection the outgoing ways? The panels have 64 outgoing ways so fitting boards downstream with 64 RCBOs would prove expensive even if you could squeeze them in to the cupboard, which you could not.

Any ideas how to provide RCD protection in these circumstances as I am bound to be asked when I submit my EICR?

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John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 02 July 2013 11:13 PM
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peteTLM

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Does these panels have mcbs within them for the outgoing ways??

Maybe they think that if the house is posh enough to have lutron, they the owners are too idle to do any work especially knocking nails into the wall

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Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 03 July 2013 06:22 AM
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leckie

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I'm not sure if these are the same type of panels, but if they are then Lutrons answer seems like a new panel is required.

http://www.lutroninstaller.com...on%20RCBO%20Panels.pdf
 03 July 2013 06:29 AM
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Jobbo

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John

Not sure what model panels you have but Lutron generally fit RBCOs to their panel now on the inputs to the modules, apart from the internal control circuit. It would be pointless to provide RCBOs on the outgoing ways, as quite often if a permanent supply is needed for a particular channel (i.e. DMX control, Emergency light), this is tapped off the input supply to that grouped module. Hence why a label is normally fitted indicating that the input MCB should be isolated when undertaking any electrical works to a channel.

Hope that makes sense, it's early

Regards

Jobbo
 03 July 2013 06:41 AM
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leckie

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Anyway, I am assuming that the EICR would rate the lack of RCD departures as code 3, so the client might take the view that they are not going to bother making the alterations. It would be pretty expensive I would imagine. They could just do supplementary bonding to the bathroom as it would be code 2.
 03 July 2013 09:31 AM
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Parsley

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Installing the supplementary bonding will not be the preferred option,houses with Homeworks systems are generally pretty high end and they might not appreciate the bespoke Italian bathroom being knocked about to get the green and yellow cables in.

Occasionally the resistance R between simultaneously accessible exposed-conductive-parts and extraneous-conductive- parts complies with R <50 V/Ia without supplementary bonding depending on pipework and CPC lengths and ratings of protective devices.

Regards
 04 July 2013 11:53 PM
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Martynduerden

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Give me a shout tomorrow John ill sort you a bespoke solution

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Martyn.

Only a mediocre person is always at their best



www.electrical contractors uk.com
 05 July 2013 03:44 PM
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John Peckham

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I suspect the binary option of do nothing will prevail over the throwing the panels away and fitting new will be chosen. I think the 3rd way of fitting a load of BS951 clamps, 4mm conductors and a bit of surface trunking going up the wall in the corner in each of the swanky bathrooms will be a non starter.

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John Peckham

http://www.astutetechnicalservices.co.uk/
 05 July 2013 07:30 PM
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weirdbeard

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Originally posted by: John Peckham

and no RCD protection for the cables at a depth of less than 50mm in the walls.




Just a thought:

Section D of the standard EICR forms on this site:

"It should be noted that cables concealed within trunking and conduits, under floors, in roof spaces, and generally within the fabric of the building or underground, have not been inspected unless specifically agreed between the client and inspector prior to the inspection."

Perhaps no code is necessary for the above mentioned 'defect', unless the extent of the inspection has been arranged to include inspection of concealed cables?
 06 July 2013 06:19 AM
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davezawadi

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Are you sure that the Lutron panel is OK, 80mA seems very high John? I have dimmers with 24 10A channels on 30 mA RCDs no problem, so this seems to be a possible fault with the filtering.

David

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David
CEng etc, don't ask, its a result not a question!
myurl
 06 July 2013 05:40 PM
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slittle

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I've got Mode ones with RCBO's in the TPN board protecting them.

I managed with a bit of help from Mode to reconfigure the panels to split what should have been a 3 phase input + control into 3 x single phase + control.

Worked a treat,

Stu
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