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Topic Title: Help with pricing!
Topic Summary: Pricing a (big) 4 bed new build
Created On: 25 June 2013 10:04 PM
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 25 June 2013 10:04 PM
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josephelectric

Posts: 4
Joined: 27 February 2012

Hello all

Could really do with some advice on this one. I've been asked to price a job - its a 4 bed detached house but its huge. 4 beds, 3 ensuites, main bathroom, boiler circuit, smokes, security alarm, 4 reception rooms, 2 kitchens, 3 shower circuits, 2 oven circuits, earth bonding, electric gates, 4 outside sockets, lots of 2 way circuits, outside lights illuminating the front and back of the house, low level lighting posts along the driveway. On the customer's request they want 75 double sockets, 225 (yeah count em!) down lights split into banks, Lutron dimmers, modern kitchen with all the isolators....

Its a new build so no chasing or back boxes need to be rebated.

I'm estimating about four weeks to first and second fix with two experienced electricians and then a day on the db and a couple of days for one person to test it.

Does that sound realistic?

Just wanted to sound this out and see what others have charged on a job like this?

Customer is buying all materials so I only need to quote for labour.
 25 June 2013 10:11 PM
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Ricicle

Posts: 834
Joined: 23 October 2006

Originally posted by: josephelectric




Customer is buying all materials so I only need to quote for labour.


Don't forget to tell them that any time spent replacing/correcting faulty materials will be at their cost !!

-------------------------
Empty barrels make the most noise.
 25 June 2013 10:12 PM
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primo

Posts: 430
Joined: 10 January 2008

If you can do all of that in 4 weeks then you can all come and work for me!
 25 June 2013 10:23 PM
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peteTLM

Posts: 3122
Joined: 31 March 2005

2 weeks 1st fix 2 people, 4 weeks at least 2nd fix, and even then go onto daywork for fitting customer bought lights (chandeliers, mirror lights etc).

A friend of mine has just finished (assisting on ) a similar job and it took 6 months for 2/3 people due to the number of changes and the customer making it up as they go along.

You MUST vet their materials list as some manufacturers stuff is a/ crap and b/ takes twice as long to fit, so factor that in.

-------------------------
----------------------------------------
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 25 June 2013 10:27 PM
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josephelectric

Posts: 4
Joined: 27 February 2012

Cheers! Good point.
 25 June 2013 10:29 PM
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josephelectric

Posts: 4
Joined: 27 February 2012

Originally posted by: peteTLM

2 weeks 1st fix 2 people, 4 weeks at least 2nd fix, and even then go onto daywork for fitting customer bought lights (chandeliers, mirror lights etc).



A friend of mine has just finished (assisting on ) a similar job and it took 6 months for 2/3 people due to the number of changes and the customer making it up as they go along.



You MUST vet their materials list as some manufacturers stuff is a/ crap and b/ takes twice as long to fit, so factor that in.


Thanks for this...thats really helped me out.
 25 June 2013 10:30 PM
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josephelectric

Posts: 4
Joined: 27 February 2012

Originally posted by: primo

If you can do all of that in 4 weeks then you can all come and work for me!


Ha! Yes I thought I was being a bit optimistic...
 26 June 2013 06:52 AM
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dickllewellyn

Posts: 1150
Joined: 19 March 2010

Try and break it down if you can, ie. so long for the kitchen, so long for each bathroom....

Are they supplying all materials? Make sure you explain that you won't guarantee them, and that it won't always be cheaper if the materials are not easy to work with.

Near in mind you may not be able to carry on full time, you might be there for a few days with nothing to get on with before you suddenly have a deadline for the plasterer.

Ultimately, as long as you keep an eye on the job, keep a track of extras, double check everything is right and nothing is missing as you go along you will be fine.

Also make sure you help out and get along with the other trades. A four bed house with all the sockets plastered over isn't funny! Tuck your cables in, cap up securely, halo with moving/carrying etc, and everything should run smoothly.

Have fun!

-------------------------
Regards
Richard (Dick)

"Insert words of wisdom and/or witty pun here"
 26 June 2013 01:25 PM
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stateit

Posts: 2132
Joined: 15 April 2005

How big is the core team of builders (as opposed to other trades?)

If it's just 3 or 4 people you'll be in and out of there over a 6 month to a year period...

The whole place won't get finished at once to be ready for 1st fix.

-------------------------
S George
http://www.sg-electrical.com
 26 June 2013 02:17 PM
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mikejumper

Posts: 1701
Joined: 14 December 2006

Originally posted by: josephelectric
Does that sound realistic?

No.
Bear in mind also you'll be working around other trades for most of the time which always slows things down.
 26 June 2013 05:17 PM
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WiredScience

Posts: 92
Joined: 25 January 2012

Originally posted by: josephelectric

Customer is buying all materials so I only need to quote for labour.


In my experience that usually means - "we are buying the sockets, switches, and lights from the web".

Customers normally have no concept of all the "unnecessary extras" such as screws, rawl plugs, boxes, clips, sleeving, capping, connectors, cables, etc, etc. and when this is explained to them they then expect you to provide a bill of materials free of charge.

Ensure they are aware that you will be charging for missing items, or at least booking "waiting time" while they trawl the internet looking for the cheapest chocolate screws money can buy.

Finally, if they are the type who think they can shave a few quid off the bill by sourcing materials, they may be reluctant to settle your invoice without question...
 26 June 2013 09:49 PM
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leckie

Posts: 1710
Joined: 21 November 2008

If you wanted help to price this job, I could help you, that is for the supply and fit of the material, plus overheads and profit. If you want advice on pricing a labour only job with others supplying material , I can also help. Give them a day work/dayrate and that's it!

If you try to price something that you have no control of you will end up with problems.
 26 June 2013 10:04 PM
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largelunchbox

Posts: 363
Joined: 06 July 2008

i would quote £25000
 26 June 2013 11:22 PM
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unshockable

Posts: 841
Joined: 18 May 2007

Everyone is having the same problems with this as me. Having been in the same situation, can I say;

Materials;
-AFAIK You are still responsible for what you fit whether you bought it or not.

-Buy your own first fix materials at least; it assures quality and availability.

Labour;
-Consider a "First cut" between the first and second fix. If a customer insists on a price I can offer a 3 visit quote, outside of which dayrate applies. They then need to have things ready for me (walls not built etc) and I don't have an extra visit. Put the pressure on them.

-Dressing that lot into board(s) will be summit! Don't underestimate.

-Photos: take plenty and use your rods on cable clips to provide scale. You will need them when you're looking for a cable.

-You need to holesaw those down lights before decoration begins. Funny how nasty people can be even if you pigtail cables.

It all depends on the client; are they looking for a budget and reclaiming the VAT or they clueless and rapacious ba*%$*ds?

Simon
 26 June 2013 11:46 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19471
Joined: 23 March 2004

Seriously - 4 weeks for a pair of experienced electricians.

What are you planning on doing in the afternoons then ?

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 29 June 2013 09:34 PM
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DOUGIE1000

Posts: 4160
Joined: 13 August 2005

Originally posted by: OMS

Seriously - 4 weeks for a pair of experienced electricians.

What are you planning on doing in the afternoons then ?

Regards

OMS


Agreed, 2sparks can 1st fix a 3bed bog standard house using clips and installing all wiring.

-------------------------
Dougie
Power Plus Electrical.co.uk

My mission is to live as long as possible......so far so good!
 01 July 2013 08:13 PM
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nick3lords

Posts: 14
Joined: 22 June 2013

When rewiring a standard house I adopt a simple calculation.
2 Bed = £2,000
3 Bed = £2,500
4 Bed = £3,000
and so on

for more complicated installs I have a spreadsheet with prices of parts to me and what I charge (+20%)
I then look at the job and ask myself how long will that take???
Multiply the day rate by number of days (5 days *£150 = £750 + VAT for labor) + Parts
Works out about the same as the general rule above

Additional bathrooms, electric showers, on-suits are around £250 - £500 extra
Studies are classed as extra bedrooms

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Nicholas Owen
Dyfed Electrical
 01 July 2013 08:28 PM
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nick3lords

Posts: 14
Joined: 22 June 2013

Sorry just reread this one - I have nearly finished a rewire now 8 months later - simple 3 up, 2 down.

Was a simple rewire until the owner decided half way through that he wanted to rip all the plasterboard down, re-plumb, re-skim, re-floor.

The only thing left when he gutted the house was the 4 walls and roof!

Although I was only working 2 days a week we got the whole place done in 8 months and only cost him just over £1,000 plus materials (he works for a wholesaler! - better rates than me!)

I would at least double your 4 weeks for safety after having a set floor plan of all the light points, sockets, etc, etc. Then have an T&C on the contract that any changes from the plan, faulty materials, other trades coming in, etc, etc coursers an additional cost of (day rate) per day.

Or even easier just agree to a day rate - like I did!

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Nicholas Owen
Dyfed Electrical
 01 July 2013 08:29 PM
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sparkiemike

Posts: 1535
Joined: 24 January 2008

I am in the middle of a 2nd fix on a similar job - but only 150 down lights, although there is data cabling in each room and it also includes some of the co-ax cabling for the TVs etc. So far the estimated cost will be close to £30K. It started out at £20K, but due to a number of additions it has crept up, fortunately my estimates are very detailed on what is included so it has been straight forward to claim the additions.
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