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Topic Title: Wago connectors inside a DB
Topic Summary: any views?
Created On: 04 June 2013 10:34 PM
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 04 June 2013 10:34 PM
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Zs

Posts: 3042
Joined: 20 July 2006

Hello puppies,

This is a bit hasty because I am still ploughing through the report for the theatre. Excuse overtly conversational tone.

I'm looking at a 'note to self' on the subject of wago connectors being used to extend cables inside a DB. It says 'oi, wago connectors inside a DB??? great joint but is this really allowed?''

I made the note because I am a fan of wago type connectors, the push-in ones rather than the lever ones and I am not a fan of crimps because I think they are usually rubbish and you can only put them to the test by pulling them apart and then you have to re make them and all that malarkey.

They have enough on their plate in this place, really they do...with effect from the big meeting next week. The DB concerned has recently been changed and those poor people have unwittingly been the victims of absolute carp over the past 15 years or so. I am inclined to comment but to state that it is a much lower priority than other things.

I am also aware from the GN3 process that new-fangled stuff is somewhat brushed aside and may not be given the validation it deserves.

What do you reckon on the subject of a wago to extend cores inside a DB?

In truth, I want to let it go.

( Corrected a split infinitive but forgive any other blunders)

Zs
 04 June 2013 10:52 PM
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paulskyrme

Posts: 866
Joined: 12 February 2003

I'd have no issues with "Wago" type connectors anywhere TBH.
If you think about it, in a DB, crimps or choc blocks would be acceptable.
IMHO "Wago's" much preferable.
Though I prefer the lever types!
Having used variations on this theme for some 10+ years now.
 04 June 2013 11:01 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

The only objective I'd have to these, is cost.
In the good old days, we'd fit an adjacent box with Din Rail Connectors. But through crimps are acceptable, so why not Wagos. If it's accessible, even screw connector blocks are OK. As long as the connections are sound, what's the bother. (And contrary to some opinion, split infinitives have their place as well :-) )
 04 June 2013 11:02 PM
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kirchoffs

Posts: 182
Joined: 08 February 2010

Have done excatly the same when changing a DB. I agree entirely as regards crimp lugs.
 04 June 2013 11:04 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Hee hee. And if I'd been a bit more awake, I'd have advised you to boldly go, with wagos ;-)
 04 June 2013 11:07 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 6381
Joined: 04 July 2007

I see no problem with Wago's or similar (eg Helacon's) inside a DB Zs, or indeed connector blocks as others have said,

Dave.
 05 June 2013 06:30 AM
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primo

Posts: 465
Joined: 10 January 2008

Can't see a problem with it (I've done it!) No different to using them anywhere else to make a joint. Even better if using the din rail holders for the Wagos too!
Are you referring to their MF status re:GN3? If so, I don't think this is an issue if inside a DB.
 05 June 2013 08:38 AM
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Thripster

Posts: 653
Joined: 22 August 2006

I think the lever clamps are brilliant and can facilitate testing. Only problem is that I'm not sure these have received type approval yet.

Regards
 05 June 2013 09:29 AM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11768
Joined: 13 August 2003

I wouldn't have any concerns - indeed the manufacturer's literature http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Te...heets/Wago/Wago102.pdf even shows them used in a CU (if on a DIN rail carrier).
- Andy.
 05 June 2013 10:32 AM
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OMS

Posts: 19900
Joined: 23 March 2004

Personally speaking, I would prefer to see the new board fitted with an extension chamber and din rail mounted connectors if existing cabling won't be long enough - ie terminate all the old cables in one enclosure to suitable terminations (lets say wago, ideally on din rail) and extend to the new DB

For a few odd bits of modification, wagos in the DB aren't a problem - as you say, there are far bigger worries in the electrical systems

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 05 June 2013 11:07 AM
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Cremeegg

Posts: 545
Joined: 13 July 2007

I'd far rather see Wagos than an old choc block connector of unknown parentage and dubious quality.

Rather than Wago or Hellermann has anyone tried the Ideal Spliceline 2 port crimp free push in butt splice. In effect a push fit in line crimp fitting so cables can lay straight rather than being bent to fit into and out of a Wago. Rated at 32A 400v for 0.5mm to 4mm solid cable. BS EN 60998-1 and BS EN 60998-2-2 and BS7671:2008 compliant according to the packaging.

Now to go and look up what those standards actually mean - apart from the last one!
 05 June 2013 01:59 PM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11768
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Only problem is that I'm not sure these have received type approval yet.

They seem to have a number of foreign "national" approvals (presumably based on an appropriate underlying EN for the EU ones at least) and 133.1.1 would seem to suggest that we can take that as acceptable.
- Andy.
 05 June 2013 05:53 PM
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alanblaby

Posts: 404
Joined: 09 March 2012

Originally posted by: Cremeegg

Rather than Wago or Hellermann has anyone tried the Ideal Spliceline 2 port crimp free push in butt splice.



Yes, I bought a box of 100 last year and have nearly got through the lot. Excellent things, far better than getting the crimpers out and trying to get a good joint when only an inch of cable is showing.
 05 June 2013 08:10 PM
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largelunchbox

Posts: 377
Joined: 06 July 2008

Originally posted by: Zs

Hello puppies,



This is a bit hasty because I am still ploughing through the report for the theatre. Excuse overtly conversational tone.



I'm looking at a 'note to self' on the subject of wago connectors being used to extend cables inside a DB. It says 'oi, wago connectors inside a DB??? great joint but is this really allowed?''



I made the note because I am a fan of wago type connectors, the push-in ones rather than the lever ones and I am not a fan of crimps because I think they are usually rubbish and you can only put them to the test by pulling them apart and then you have to re make them and all that malarkey.



They have enough on their plate in this place, really they do...with effect from the big meeting next week. The DB concerned has recently been changed and those poor people have unwittingly been the victims of absolute carp over the past 15 years or so. I am inclined to comment but to state that it is a much lower priority than other things.



I am also aware from the GN3 process that new-fangled stuff is somewhat brushed aside and may not be given the validation it deserves.



What do you reckon on the subject of a wago to extend cores inside a DB?



In truth, I want to let it go.



( Corrected a split infinitive but forgive any other blunders)



Zs

surly if u test a crimp by pulling it and it fails then theres no hassle in doing it again coz it wasnt right in the first place,if it stays crimped the all good. wagos all way for me btw
 05 June 2013 08:17 PM
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primo

Posts: 465
Joined: 10 January 2008

Originally posted by: OMS

Personally speaking, I would prefer to see the new board fitted with an extension chamber and din rail mounted connectors if existing cabling won't be long enough - ie terminate all the old cables in one enclosure to suitable terminations (lets say wago, ideally on din rail) and extend to the new DB




Regards



OMS


Sometimes I find that using the din rail mount holders for Wagos can become very untidy and can make a neater job without using the din rail, still in a separate enclosure, if the cables will not be subject to any movement.
Sometimes the din rail option works better, most of the heating wiring I do is now in a adaptable box with din rail wagos and stuffing glands in to it, looks really neat and is easy to work on and identify what is what in the future.
 05 June 2013 08:25 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19900
Joined: 23 March 2004

For sure Primo - horses for courses depending on the circumstances at hand - I'm not precious about the type of connector - just that I'd rather see them (for this application) contained within a terminal chamber rather than the DB.

An adaptable box with din rail wagos, and stuffing glands clearly far exceeds some of the s**t I see on a regular basis.

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 05 June 2013 08:27 PM
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primo

Posts: 465
Joined: 10 January 2008

Originally posted by: OMS




An adaptable box with din rail wagos, and stuffing glands clearly far exceeds some of the s**t I see on a regular basis.





Hence why I don't have a sports car or a large detached house, but I do have lots of nice photos of heating wiring.
 05 June 2013 08:59 PM
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Zs

Posts: 3042
Joined: 20 July 2006

Thank you, yes it was the general approval that was on my mind. An alarm went off in my head and I am pleased to see your feedback. I feel that I have to mention everything I am aware of to them but am keen, quietly, to draw a line wherever I can. If the place is going to catch fire I will shout about it, it the earth sleeving is green without any yellow then I will not even whisper it in the car (as I pull up against a £4 an hour parking meter).

I do use the lever ones and love them but unlike some of you I wouldn't use them inside a DB. No regs or anything to back that up, just that you can pull them apart with a swift tug.

I actually use hellerman myself but didn't want to confuse the issue.

Thanks, I'll not even mention it.

Zs
 05 June 2013 09:17 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19900
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Thanks, I'll not even mention it.


I would just mention it in passing in your report - then move on.

"Whilst undertaking the inspection it was observed that...... blah, blah. Whilst not a specific breach of BS 7671 is not representative of good engineering practice etc and should be addressed when other remedial works to the area are undertaken. Ideally extended circuits should be terminated via dedicated terminal chambers, suitably labelled or otherwise identified - purpose - to assist in future testing, maintenance etc and to eliminate, where practicable, risk of potential circuit failure or other effects within the Dist Bd type tested enclosure"

Clients pay by weight for reports !! - that's got to be worth about £80 an hour for your effort -

Yes, I know - clocking off now

Regards

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 06 June 2013 07:25 AM
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zeeper

Posts: 1427
Joined: 11 July 2008

surly if u test a crimp by pulling it and it fails then theres no hassle in doing it again coz it wasnt right in the first place,if it stays crimped the all good. wagos all way for me btw


If it comes apart its time to buy a new ratchet crimper.
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