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Topic Title: asbestos again
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Created On: 12 May 2013 10:44 PM
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 12 May 2013 10:44 PM
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Zs

Posts: 2924
Joined: 20 July 2006

Could I pick your brains please.

I will post up some photos of this but have forgotten my password for photo bucket and it is late. But;

Whilst carrying out some meter finding for a client on Friday I noticed a heap of code 1's. Quite nasty but not my remit to inspect on that job. Nonetheless part of my duty of care to my client to check the blindingly obvious has been pointed out to them.

Loads of boards, more than 10, still in use with the doors hanging open and most of the fuse carriers removed revealing the remaining asbestos blanket. An EICR was carried out by another company in February of this year.

I was concerned that the client may not have acted on the code 1's from his EICR and have been in touch with the inspection company to see if they flagged it all. Polite exchange, just the questions.

They think that exposed asbestos is not an electrical matter and not part of an EICR.

I disagree, do you?

I've not responded to theirs, nor will I. This isn't about their EICR but about the safety of my client.

I will post the pictures as soon as I can get the password sorted. I think you will say danger notice in the light of the other bits that you will see but I am most interested in your views about the asbestos blankets.

Thanks

Zs
 12 May 2013 11:40 PM
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kengreen

Posts: 400
Joined: 15 April 2013

Asbestos is NOT something to take lightly. I had a sister who died of Mesothelioma - a nasty way to die.

Urge your client to contact local Council for advice - don't touch until told that it is the safe kind - and personally I would inform said Council of the responsible Contractor who clearly needs instruction.

Ken Green
 13 May 2013 11:01 AM
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OMS

Posts: 19688
Joined: 23 March 2004

Starting points:

1 - advise your client to lock the doors and limit access or otherwise manage the situation as they see fit

2 - advise the client to get it tested to allow a future course of action to be decided upon

1 may also address any exposed conductive parts etc etc

3 - remind the client they have a duty under the control of asbestos at work regulations

That's your duty of care completed.

From there, recognise that many companies simply will not address or comment on asbestos related issues - we wont for example - we expressly exclude any advice related to ACM's except for reminding clients of thier obligations and addressing any immediately obvious issues - and that comes straight from the head shed - so we take it pretty seriously.

They think that exposed asbestos is not an electrical matter and not part of an EICR.


I'd agree with them in principle.

I disagree, do you?


Only in the sense that they probably have a wider duty to inform of anything they believe to be dangerous - that could be access to electrical equipment, the state or nature of that equipment or other obvious issues that affect thier own and the safety of others. Duty to cooperate and all that.

Typicaly in these cases, we ask the question up front before undertaking the inspection, survey, EICR or whatever. That puts the issue in the clients mind.

If the answer is ambiguous (as it usually is), we would suggest that what we've seen is potentially an ACM and the client should get a type 3 survey (or more correctly, a demolition and refurbishment survey) undertaken and advise us of the outcome.

Keep in mind, that a lot of switchgear has non asbestos arc shields etc, but by observation, almost impossible to distinguish from one containing ACM's

Also keep in mind, condition and type of binder is important - if its not friable, shedding or otherwise in poor condition, it's not really a problem - ditto if it's encapsulated.

This really is a case of "Less is More" - statement of facts to the client - no suggsted course of action of any kind, sufficient words to demonstrate that you also may have been exposed.

Single paragraph only - include it in the report you are authoring on whatever issue you were there for.

The actions of the company undertaking the EICR are between them and thier client.

Don't answer this, but did you ask for sight of the building asbestos register before doing what you were there for ?

Regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 13 May 2013 09:27 PM
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Fm

Posts: 680
Joined: 24 August 2011

Asbestor register, good one!

I have one and issue it to my sub contractors doing work. Some dont even bother to look at it, but hey they were issued with it.

Getting a demo/ refurb survey done next week on a property i hope to take down quite soon.

Good advise on the hse website on asbestos
 13 May 2013 09:33 PM
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DOUGIE1000

Posts: 4166
Joined: 13 August 2005

i agree with you Zs, i always mention it on a EICR.

-------------------------
Dougie
Power Plus Electrical.co.uk

My mission is to live as long as possible......so far so good!
 13 May 2013 09:34 PM
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slittle

Posts: 3523
Joined: 22 November 2007

Last asbestos register I had thrust in front of me detailed everything in the building with a lovely exclusion for "any electrical switchgear"

I'd agree that it doesn't fall under 7671 so therefore outside the scope of an EICR, however I would comment in my covering letter "that I believed ACM's may be present and that professional advice should be sought"

Whilst we all have a duty of care, there is also a great risk of putting your head well and truly in the noose :-)


Stu
 13 May 2013 09:53 PM
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Zs

Posts: 2924
Joined: 20 July 2006

http://s1306.photobucket.com/u...5VbxMgGesSnO6R&page=1

grrrr does anyone know of a better alternative to Ph bucket? It does my head in.

There's quite a few photos here, not all of them asbestos related but my temper is fraying trying to download things in order for you. You will enjoy some of the other ones anyway and they are all from the same day's work. I'm getting a bit better don't you think?

Zs
 13 May 2013 10:05 PM
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slittle

Posts: 3523
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On the plus side if the ACM's don't kill you, the amount of live brass and copper stands a good chance !


Stu
 13 May 2013 10:22 PM
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Fm

Posts: 680
Joined: 24 August 2011

Nice photos, IP2X?

Advise they get the lids on asap.
Advise they Get switch room doors locked
advise they Get a permit to enter system in place.
ADvise they get a systemmin place formcontrolling work that takes place in the future
 13 May 2013 10:57 PM
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OMS

Posts: 19688
Joined: 23 March 2004

I'm getting a bit better don't you think?


LoL - well you know how to pick them, that's for sure.

regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 13 May 2013 10:58 PM
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stateit

Posts: 2185
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Originally posted by: Zs

grrrr does anyone know of a better alternative to Ph bucket? It does my head in.

Zs


Your own webspace and an FTP program... That's how I cope with posting pictures.

Either way (Photobucket et al or your own webspace) you still need to remember a password though....

-------------------------
S George
http://www.sg-electrical.com
 13 May 2013 11:03 PM
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stateit

Posts: 2185
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The above aside, and back to the OP...

I've quoted the fact to a client before that if they've been to the local hospital they may have noticed the fact that the vinyl wall/floor tiles have stickers on then saying words to the effect of 'asbestos content - do not disturb'.

Then I ask them if they expect me to poke about in their loose weave asbestos blanket arc shields without wanting precautions taken.

-------------------------
S George
http://www.sg-electrical.com
 14 May 2013 09:21 AM
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AJJewsbury

Posts: 11493
Joined: 13 August 2003

you still need to remember a password though

You could look at something like KeePass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KeePass ) - that way you only have to remember one password for everything (but do keep the .kdbx files backed up!!)
- Andy.
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