IET logo
 
IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: BS 1363 Plug top
Topic Summary: Max cable size
Created On: 09 May 2013 02:40 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
<< 1 2 3 Previous Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 10 May 2013 05:53 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



perspicacious

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18 April 2006

"6.6.8 Representation of numbers and numerical values
6.6.8.1 The decimal sign shall be a comma on the line in all language versions."


Isn't there a touch of irony there?

Regards.,

BOD
 10 May 2013 05:55 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for Legh.
Legh

Posts: 3472
Joined: 17 December 2004

Originally posted by: ebee

Hoy!

Stop saying "2,5 mm2 cable" that is incorrect.

Say "2.5 mm2 cable" that is correct.

There is such a thing as a decimal point.

There is not such a thing as a decimal comma!

[IMG][/IMG]


We know by now that a friday afternoon comma is pointless ! ......

Legh



-------------------------
Why do we need Vernier Calipers when we have container ships?

http://www.leghrichardson.co.uk

"Science has overcome time and space. Well, Harvey has overcome not only time and space - but any objections."
 10 May 2013 05:56 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



perspicacious

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18 April 2006

"2 x LV lighting transformers 10 x 12V, heavy duty sealed for outdoor use black silicone rubber cable containing 2 x 2.5 tinned copper conductors into a moulded plug, with BS conformities.
1 x stand alone double insulated circular halogen patio heater white flex with 2 x 2.5 conductors into a white moulded plug. BS kitemark.
1 x large electric chainsaw double insulated with 2 x 2.5 conductors into a moulded plug.
And now the 'piece de resistance'
1x 3kva 110V transformer 3 core 2.5 cable into a moulded plug.
1x Worx heavy duty chipper 3 core 2.5 cable into a moulded plug.
So something went wrong there eh!!!!!"


Who carried out the PAT on them?

Regards

BOD
 10 May 2013 06:46 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8828
Joined: 03 October 2005

Originally posted by: perspicacious

"2 x LV lighting transformers 10 x 12V, heavy duty sealed for outdoor use black silicone rubber cable containing 2 x 2.5 tinned copper conductors into a moulded plug, with BS conformities.

1 x stand alone double insulated circular halogen patio heater white flex with 2 x 2.5 conductors into a white moulded plug. BS kitemark.

1 x large electric chainsaw double insulated with 2 x 2.5 conductors into a moulded plug.

And now the 'piece de resistance'

1x 3kva 110V transformer 3 core 2.5 cable into a moulded plug.

1x Worx heavy duty chipper 3 core 2.5 cable into a moulded plug.

So something went wrong there eh!!!!!"


Who carried out the PAT on them?

Regards

BOD


Really, now why would I waste £3 on PAT 6 items and spend all morning removing the tape from the 11 taped joints on the chainsaw lead for inspection.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 10 May 2013 10:36 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



peteTLM

Posts: 3123
Joined: 31 March 2005

Originally posted by: alancapon

In theory, a Portable Appliance Test on anything fitted with a 13A plug and anything larger than 1.5mm² cable is a fail.



Regards,



Alan.


Im sure my 3kva 110v transformer has 2.5mm flex on it from the factory, and of course a 13A plug.

Id guess its 2.5 to provide a more robust lead for a harsher than normal environment.



My favourite plug i ever saw was a 6mm lead on a 10kw industrial dishwasher wedged into a 13A plug. At Zs's favourite job

-------------------------
----------------------------------------
Lack of planning on your part doesn't make it an emergency on mine....

Every man has to know his limitations- Dirty Harry
 12 May 2013 08:15 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for gkenyon.
gkenyon

Posts: 4478
Joined: 06 May 2002

2.5 sq mm cable in a BS1363 plug is plain wrong. There's no way of knowing that the terminal will maintain mechanical integrity for a reasonable length of time (moulded plug of unknown design excepted of course, but see next statement on Plugs & Sockets Regs).

Simple - Where a BS1363 plug is intended as a matter of course, then the Plugs & Sockets Regulations apply. This must facilitate the replacement of a plug in accordance with Table 2 of BS1363-1, in case Manufacturers' Instructions are lost. Unfortunately, Table 2 only goes up to 1.5 sq mm.

The alternative for equipment that's not considered "domestic and similar", would be either IEC60309-2 16 A (if intended for connection to "fixed accessory" or IEC60320 C20, C22 or C24 if intended for connection to a "PDU".

Not sure there's too much of a problem using a BS1363 plug to IEC60309-2 16A socket where required?

-------------------------
Eur Ing Graham Kenyon CEng MIET TechIOSH
 12 May 2013 08:25 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



perspicacious

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18 April 2006

"Not sure there's too much of a problem using a BS1363 plug to IEC60309-2 16A socket where required?"

Well I'm sure it must be OK as thousands of "shed pullers" use them when their "tin tent" is at home and needs power

Regards

BAD
 12 May 2013 08:29 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



perspicacious

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18 April 2006

Which came first?

BS 1363 or 721.55.2.6 with its table 721

Regards

BAD
 12 May 2013 08:30 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for ebee.
ebee

Posts: 5667
Joined: 02 December 2004

The Egg!



-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 12 May 2013 10:06 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for sparkingchip.
sparkingchip

Posts: 5833
Joined: 18 January 2003

"BS 1363 or 721.55.2.6 with its table 72"

Off the top of my head BS1363 in the 1950's with a maximum design load of a 3.0Kw heater for a socket outlet, designed in conjunction with domestic socket ring circuits that could have a maximum load of two 3.0Kw heaters per ring circuit with there typically being one circuit and two heaters per dwelling.

Andy
 12 May 2013 10:15 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for ebee.
ebee

Posts: 5667
Joined: 02 December 2004

Pretty much sums up the way I remember it too!

Those 3KW fan heaters, where did they go?

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 13 May 2013 09:46 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



iie63674

Posts: 76
Joined: 17 May 2006

Originally posted by: OMS

Originally posted by: iie63674

Originally posted by: OMS

For sure it went wrong Rock - the company putting the CE mark on the products for a start.

regards

OMS


And which EHSR, of which Directive, do you think is not complied with by a 2,5 mm2 cable?

I'll open the bidding with 1.5.4 of The Supply of Machinery (Safety) Regulations 2008 and go from there to the LV directive -
Oh No! Now I've upset another of the forum regulars!


Nahh - it's just a debate - I don't offend that easy

Regards
OMS

1.5.4. Errors of fitting
Errors likely to be made when fitting or refitting certain parts which could be a source of risk must be made impossible by the design and construction of such parts or, failing this, by information given on the parts themselves and/or their housings. The same information must be given on moving parts and/or their housings where the direction of movement needs to be known in order to avoid a risk.
Where necessary, the instructions must give further information on these risks.
Where a faulty connection can be the source of risk, incorrect connections must be made impossible by design or, failing this, by information given on the elements to be connected and, where appropriate, on the means of connection.

My take on that would be that if 2,5mm2 cable could be a source of risk, then the plug manufacturer must design them so that such cable cannot be fitted, or where that is not possible mark the plug to discourage 2,5 mm2. I could understand if you'd suggested 1.5.1, but then you'd have to identify a hazard that could be caused by using 2,5 instead of 1,5.
I'm not sure where you think the LVD applies, since domestic plugs and sockets are specifically excluded from the LVD.
 13 May 2013 10:48 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



perspicacious

Posts: 7140
Joined: 18 April 2006

Perhaps a leaf out of the 110 V book where if you buy a tool with a rating exceeding 1710 W, it comes without a fitted plug?

Of course, the user on buying a 110 V 2000 W 9" grinder fits a 32 A plug as the last time he had his 1800 W saw etc PATted, the tester failed it for there being a 16 A plug on it............

Regards

BOD
 13 May 2013 11:07 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 11299
Joined: 13 August 2003

Not sure there's too much of a problem using a BS1363 plug to IEC60309-2 16A socket where required?"

What about the requirement for sockets in domestic situations to be shuttered?

Stop saying "2,5 mm2 cable" that is incorrect.
Say "2.5 mm2 cable" that is correct.
There is such a thing as a decimal point.
There is not such a thing as a decimal comma!

Yes, but if we're being properly pedantic, a full stop (.) isn't a decimal point either. The correct character for a decimal point (in the UK at least) is a middle-dot.

- Andy.

(edited as the forum software software filtered out my middle dot )
 13 May 2013 02:38 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



iie63674

Posts: 76
Joined: 17 May 2006

Andy,

I believe the interpunct (middle dot) was replaced full th efull stop in ISO 1000: 1981, but I threw out my copy a couple of weeks ago so can't check!
 13 May 2013 02:58 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Thripster

Posts: 636
Joined: 22 August 2006

I'm sure that some enterprising corporation will come up with a training course on the use of the full stop. And this will be necessary as they will have carried out costly research, at the tax payers expense, which they have chosen to conclude, shows them that human beings cannot differentiate or make sense of a statement, phrase or equation which hasn't got the mark prescribed by themselves. This is likely to be because they think that everybody is as dim as themselves and helps them to justify a non productive existence. At which point, I'll conclude my post with a ♣

Regards
 13 May 2013 04:28 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for ebee.
ebee

Posts: 5667
Joined: 02 December 2004

Now is that a "Full Spades" or a "Decimal spades" ?

AJJ.
I stand corrected - decimal point not full stop or comma

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 13 May 2013 04:40 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



iie63674

Posts: 76
Joined: 17 May 2006

Originally posted by: iie63674

Andy,



I believe the interpunct (middle dot) was replaced full th efull stop in ISO 1000: 1981, but I threw out my copy a couple of weeks ago so can't check!


Oh for an edit function!
I meant of course "replaced by the full stop", which was later replaced by the comma. BSI seem to have adopted the comma in the early 1980s.
The interpunct was dropped because its use could be confused with the mathematical operator for multiplication. The 'point on the line' was used in many countries as a separator in large numbers such as 1 000 000.
 13 May 2013 05:14 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8828
Joined: 03 October 2005

2 · 5
2 · 5
2 · 5
2 · 5
2 · 5
2 · 5
2 · 5
2 · 5
2 · 5
2 · 5


regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 13 May 2013 05:17 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



AJJewsbury

Posts: 11299
Joined: 13 August 2003

Andy,

I believe the interpunct (middle dot) was replaced full th efull stop in ISO 1000: 1981

Ah, that's possible. I recall the 'centre point' (middle dot) bit from school - probably a few years before that date.

I stand (sit) corrected.

- Andy.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » BS 1363 Plug top

<< 1 2 3 Previous Last unread
Topic Tools Topic Tools
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.