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Topic Title: UK Power Networks - Earthing !!!!!
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Created On: 08 May 2013 11:56 AM
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 08 May 2013 11:56 AM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

I know this has been done to death, but...
Did a job a few weeks ago, and the main earth was loose. It looked like a jubilee type clip had been clamped round the main cable when the CU was changed.
Anyway, contacted UKPN, who have told me that it's not their responsibility even though it's a TN-S system. They have told me to put a tenby on the main cable.
Your thoughts please...
 08 May 2013 12:14 PM
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daveparry1

Posts: 6374
Joined: 04 July 2007

I'm not at all surprised Richard, I was told several years ago by an EDF engineer that they are issued with the usual BS951 clamps.
Personally i've never seen a problem with them provided they're used sensibly and with care and not grossly overtightened, (head down now, waiting for the flack to arrive!)

Dave.
 08 May 2013 12:18 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

I'm not at all happy about doing it, Dave.
It's got the potential to go all wrong. And then I think UKPN would deny all knowledge. Hmmm...
 08 May 2013 03:07 PM
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Ricicle

Posts: 851
Joined: 23 October 2006

Originally posted by: Richard64

.

It's got the potential to go all wrong. And then I think UKPN would deny all knowledge. Hmmm...


But they would probably come after you with a big stick......

-------------------------
Empty barrels make the most noise.
 08 May 2013 03:57 PM
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Smith249

Posts: 362
Joined: 09 September 2004

Just waiting now for the member of this forum known as 'UKPN' to come in telling us how great they are and how all sparkys are idiots and it was probably your fault for them not coming out...
 08 May 2013 04:51 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Originally posted by: Smith249

Just waiting now for the member of this forum known as 'UKPN' to come in telling us how great they are and how all sparkys are idiots and it was probably your fault for them not coming out...


He can call me what he likes, as long as he gives good advice what to do.
TTing it isn't really an option, and being in the centre of London, a bit pointless. Or I could waste a day trying to get it PMEd.
 08 May 2013 04:56 PM
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steviestrikes

Posts: 137
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Originally posted by: daveparry1

I'm not at all surprised Richard, I was told several years ago by an EDF engineer that they are issued with the usual BS951 clamps.

Personally i've never seen a problem with them provided they're used sensibly and with care and not grossly overtightened, (head down now, waiting for the flack to arrive!)



Dave.


Hello Dave,

It's not flack....

...but I'm fairly sure the IET guide to Earthing and Bonding says it's a big no-no to clamp onto their cable,
 08 May 2013 05:37 PM
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slittle

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Joined: 22 November 2007

Simple really,

Report it as high ze on the supply. They will send along a nice man in a van and fix it for you.

They do in my parts of the world anyway :-)


Stu
 08 May 2013 05:41 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Originally posted by: slittle

Simple really,



Report it as high ze on the supply. They will send along a nice man in a van and fix it for you.



They do in my parts of the world anyway :-)





Stu


Already done that. Ze of 1.29 and sparking at the head. The nice man in a van turned up and recommended that the electrician (Me) put a tenby on the sheath of the main cable. I've spoken to two people ay UKPN and that, apparently, is the correct course of action.
I would disagree, and besides, I'm not putting a compression clamp on a lead sheathed cable.
The question is, where do I go from here?
 08 May 2013 06:14 PM
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24Hour

Posts: 194
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Id ask for it to be confirmed in writing, i would state that as far as you are concerned it is or could be a danger, being fire and electrocution,
I would also getthe customer to sign for a danger notice also.

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Yes i do do 24/7 everyday of the FLAMIN year.
 08 May 2013 06:20 PM
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Richard64

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In writing will be the way to go. There's no one in the property at present, and everything is RCD protected.
However, I can't believe this is UKPN policy, and advice they are giving out :-(
 08 May 2013 06:40 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7267
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Does your PLI cover you for work outside the scope of BS 7671?

Regards

BOD
 08 May 2013 06:49 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Originally posted by: perspicacious

Does your PLI cover you for work outside the scope of BS 7671?



Regards



BOD


I wouldn't be too sure on that point. We do run in submains, to meter positions and fit ryefields, so I would say it does.
However, I wouldn't have thought that doing something stupid, like clamping onto an old lead sheathed cable was covered, no.
 08 May 2013 06:49 PM
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jsa986

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Originally posted by: perspicacious

Does your PLI cover you for work outside the scope of BS 7671?



Regards



BOD


What PI cover do you know of is based on regulations with regards to cover? Insurance companies risk asses on what your working on, single phase, three phase and hazardous areas etc not regulations.

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 08 May 2013 06:52 PM
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Richard64

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And I also work to 5266 and 5839 and possibly other codes of practice. Not really the issue here.
 08 May 2013 07:05 PM
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michaelbrett

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I was under the impression that where an earth connection is provided that UK power networks had an obligation to maintain it.

Regards

Mike
 08 May 2013 07:07 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
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Originally posted by: michaelbrett

I was under the impression that where an earth connection is provided that UK power networks had an obligation to maintain it.



Regards



Mike


And me. Maybe we're wrong.
Hence the post in the first place.
 08 May 2013 07:10 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7267
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Perhaps a read of this BS?

BS 951:2009

1 Scope
This British Standard specifies performance and mechanical
requirements for clamps used to provide mechanically and electrically
sound means of earthing and/or bonding, which are primarily intended
for use in electrical installations for the connection of:
a) earthing conductors, having a cross-sectional area in the range
2.5 mm2 to 70mm2, to earth electrode rods or other means of
earthing;
b) bonding conductors to metal tubes of circular cross-section that
have circumferences of not less than 18.8 mm (i.e. diameters of
not less than 6 mm).
NOTE 1 These clamps are also suitable for electrically bonding other
conductive parts, where at least one is a tube of circular cross-section.
Such clamps are not intended for connection to the armour or sheath of a cable.
NOTE 2 Clamps specified in this standard are intended to be used singly.
NOTE 3 There is no correlation between the size of the conductor which
the clamp conductor can accommodate and the size of tube to which it is intended to be fitted.


Or failing that, a read of the package that the clamps came supplied in?

9.2 Marking of the package
The package in which the clamp is supplied shall be marked with the
following information:
a) the type of application and environment for which it is intended;
b) specific types of tube for which application of the clamp is suitable;
c) the diameter or range of diameters for which the clamp is suitable;
d) where the clamp has a termination designed to accommodate a
conductor by a screw-threaded arrangement:
1) the appropriate termination references in accordance with
Table 1, with the limits of the range presented in the form
"X - Y", where X is the termination reference of the smallest
acceptable conductor and Y is the termination reference of
the largest acceptable conductor; or
2) the range of conductor sizes in mm2, e.g. 2.5 - 6.0;
e) a warning, "Not intended for use on the sheath or armour of
a cable".


Regards

BOD
 08 May 2013 07:17 PM
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perspicacious

Posts: 7267
Joined: 18 April 2006

"What PI cover do you know of is based on regulations with regards to cover? Insurance companies risk asses on what your working on, single phase, three phase and hazardous areas etc not regulations."

A read of the policy one has is a good idea. I've seen policies that exclude hotels, agricultural, work at height specified, hazardous areas etc. It is not a good idea to assume that just because you trade as an electrical guy that the policy you pay for covers every aspect of electrical work. How many PLI policies cover PAT, EICR, design yet alone software?

Regards

BOD
 08 May 2013 07:18 PM
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Richard64

Posts: 231
Joined: 15 October 2009

Bod,
I would wholeheartedly agree. (BS 951 I'm referring to, Crossed posts :-) )
Hence the original post.

I'm in a rush to get out, but please tell me if you agree with me on the following, regarding the supplier's obligations.Parts (1) b and (4) - second part apply.

Equipment on a consumer's premises
24. - (1) A distributor or meter operator shall ensure that each item of his equipment which
is on a consumer's premises but which is not under the control of the consumer (whether
forming part of the consumer's installation or not) is -
(a) suitable for its purpose;
(b) installed and, so far as is reasonably practicable, maintained so as to prevent
danger; and
(c) protected by a suitable fusible cut-out or circuit breaker which is situated as close as
is reasonably practicable to the supply terminals.
(2) Every circuit breaker or cut-out fuse forming part of the fusible cut-out mentioned in
paragraph (1)(c) shall be enclosed in a locked or sealed container as appropriate.
(3) Where they form part of his equipment which is on a consumer's premises but which is
not under the control of the consumer, a distributor or meter operator (as appropriate) shall
mark permanently, so as clearly to identify the polarity of each of them, the separate conductors
of low voltage electric lines which are connected to supply terminals and such markings shall
be made at a point which is as close as is practicable to the supply terminals in question.
(4) Unless he can reasonably conclude that it is inappropriate for reasons of safety, a
distributor shall, when providing a new connection at low voltage, make available his supply
neutral conductor or, if appropriate, the protective conductor of his network for connection to
the protective conductor of the consumer's installation.
(5) In this regulation the expression "new connection" means the first electric line, or the
replacement of an existing electric line, to one or more consumer's installations.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » UK Power Networks - Earthing !!!!!

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