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Topic Title: Transformer room design
Topic Summary: Is there a regulation against running gas mains in a transformer
Created On: 01 May 2013 02:41 PM
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 01 May 2013 02:41 PM
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DreamKing

Posts: 7
Joined: 31 October 2003

I am working on a project where the contractor has installed a high level cable route and gas main in what is to become a substation. The room will contain an 11kV RMU, HV switchgear and 2 11kV/400V transformers.
Common sense tells me that this is a bad idea and can be very dangerous; however I cannot find any standards/regulations to support this position.
I would be grateful for any help and support you can provide
 03 May 2013 06:32 PM
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ArthurHall

Posts: 737
Joined: 25 July 2008

I don't think you will find any regs on this subject but I agree that it not a good practice.
On the other hand if its a steel gas pipe it will fairly rugged and a room with transformers will have plenty of ventilation so gas leaks will not be a great issue
 03 May 2013 06:48 PM
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Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19900
Joined: 23 March 2004

You could start with The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998

Reg 18. - (1) No person shall install any installation pipework in any position in which it cannot be used with safety having regard to the position of other pipes, pipe supports, drains, sewers, cables, conduits and electrical apparatus and to any parts of the structure of any premises in which it is installed which might affect its safe use.



It could easily be argued that with regard to electrical apparatus the gas main cannot be used safely - if only from a pespective of putting untrained gas fitters into a HV room.

regards

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 03 May 2013 08:07 PM
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SKElectrical

Posts: 911
Joined: 01 February 2009

Originally posted by: SKElectrical

Afraid I can't help with regulations as such. OMS has quoted you something with a slant on 'could be argued'. You're unlikely to find a reg which speaks directly : DO NOT DO XX. Life would be too simple if that's how regs were worded!

I spoke to a friend who designs these rooms and UPS rooms that are either next door or in the same room. He said so long as there was a 'safe distance' - ie outside zone 2 then it was probably okay. He did voice concern over the risk of explosion of hydrogen gases from the UPS batteries (in the event of fault), which in turn would be a disaster if the gas main caught fire?



Can't help you further.
 03 May 2013 10:57 PM
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rogersmith7671

Posts: 886
Joined: 04 November 2004

One of the first things you might find in large industrial boiler rooms are, large industrial boilers. Common sense tells me that this is a bad idea and can be very dangerous, especially if the boiler where to be supplied via a "gas main". However I cannot find any standards or regulations to support this position. Which is presumably why such conditions continue to persist.
It could easily be argued that putting ghastly untrained gas fitters into such situations, might easily upset the sort of highly-strung commentators who seem to resent the achievements of others however humble compared to their own.

Regards
 04 May 2013 07:51 AM
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eclipse

Posts: 154
Joined: 03 November 2006

If there was ever a problem with the gas main then access is indeed going to be a problem if the sub is owned by the local DNO.
DNO's do not like untrained people working in their substations, and this concurs with commments as made by OMS, if it was a privatly owned TX then its a different ball game regarding access, but still an issue with untrained personel.

We have had a similar issue last year and the DNO told us that they would not alow other equipment apart from their own being installed in the sub as they take ownership of the sub and the equipment inside.

Hope this helps.

-------------------------
Thanks

Alan.

Now what was that reg no?
 04 May 2013 10:27 AM
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alancapon

Posts: 5832
Joined: 27 December 2005

Assuming that the substation will belong to the DNO, have you asked them? It is conceivable that they will refuse to accept the room with other services running through it, leading to you not having a supply of electricity available. Often, the only thing allowed is lighting / fire alarms from the building supply, and often a socket or two. Substations are usually built to contain a small explosion due to a flashover, or at least direct the blast into a non-occupied area. I don't see a gas main in the room being compatible with this.

Regards,

Alan.
 04 May 2013 11:56 AM
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slittle

Posts: 3596
Joined: 22 November 2007

Originally posted by: alancapon

I don't see a gas main in the room being compatible with this.



Regards,



Alan.



Nor do I but on the plus side it would save the repair of a damaged transformer as there may not be a building left around it.

We wouldn't allow gas mains through any intake rooms so I can't see it being appropriate in a sub.

Stu
 04 May 2013 12:09 PM
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rogersmith7671

Posts: 886
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Quote, (INFORMATION TO ASSIST THIRD PARTIES IN
THE DESIGN AND INSTALLATION OF NEW
SECONDARY SUBSTATIONS FOR ADOPTION
OR USE BY SSE POWER DISTRIBUTION);

"The developer shall seek formal confirmation of the adequacy of the design of the site regarding security risk assessment from the SSEPD Planning Engineer."

With the exception of the GRP Enclosure and Padmount Transformer, all
other designs shall be forwarded to the SSEPD Civil Engineering Section
for comment prior to construction. This process will ensure that items such
as clearances and ventilation etc. are correct before construction is
started.

It is fit for purpose. Generally this means complying with Energy
Networks Association (ENA) Technical Specifications and usually
passed ENA assessment.

Adequate training is provided

Each proposal is considered on its individual merits for suitability of
connection to the SSEPD Network. This may result in rejection of the
proposal should any of the above not be complied with.


A certificate of commissioning and handing over shall be provided and
accepted by a representative of SSEPD. SSEPD document FO-PS-110
shall be used for this purpose.

I suspect similar requirements exist for a DNO near you.

Link;

http://www.ssepd.co.uk/uploade...condarySubstations.pdf

Edited: 04 May 2013 at 12:21 PM by rogersmith7671
 05 May 2013 11:51 AM
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DreamKing

Posts: 7
Joined: 31 October 2003

The substation is to be owned and maintained by Netwrok Rail, the DNO has provided HV supplies in and RMUs in separate rooms which they have accepted into use.

Thanks for all your help guys, I have sent this back to the contractors asking them to demonstrate future maintenance and or replacement can be done safely and to seek NRs buy into the installation


Regards,
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