IET logo
 
IET
Decrease font size
Increase font size
Topic Title: Rewire
Topic Summary:
Created On: 26 April 2013 09:02 PM
Status: Post and Reply
Linear : Threading : Single : Branch
1 2 Next Last unread
Search Topic Search Topic
Topic Tools Topic Tools
View similar topics View similar topics
View topic in raw text format. Print this topic.
 26 April 2013 09:02 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



martra

Posts: 29
Joined: 25 July 2008

One of my mates has bought a house which will need a rewire. As I used to be an electrician before I joined university a couple years ago to become an engineer he has asked me if I could do the rewire. I wanted to know if I would be able to do this if I got a registered installer to inspect my work afterward the job was completed?
 26 April 2013 09:15 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



impvan

Posts: 765
Joined: 07 September 2005

If you can find someone prepared to sign off the 3rd section of the cert, then yes. You would sing for the Desing and Installation elements, your 'registered installer' would sign for the Inspection & Test.

You might be cheaper putting it through LA Building Control as a notifiable job, then it's up to them to do the inspecting.
 26 April 2013 09:27 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



martra

Posts: 29
Joined: 25 July 2008

Cheers, I'll get on it.
 26 April 2013 10:07 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for leckie.
leckie

Posts: 1863
Joined: 21 November 2008

Not quite. The only person that can issue a cert is the installer. It's the installer that needs to be part p, they are the issuer of the certificate, not the tester.
 27 April 2013 08:19 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for tomgunn.
tomgunn

Posts: 3236
Joined: 25 May 2005

I thought that this had changes, as from the 6th of April? I thought that these types of works could now be signed off by a third party?

Tom

-------------------------
Tom .... ( The TERMINATOR ).

handyTRADESMAN ... haha

Castle Builders

Why did Nick Clegg cross the road? Because he said he wouldn't!

I can resist anything..... except temptation! ( Karl Gunn ).
 27 April 2013 08:25 AM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for ebee.
ebee

Posts: 5698
Joined: 02 December 2004

I think we are still waiting for the schemes to decide how we do this even though itcame in about three weeks ago!
Lovelly innit?

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 29 April 2013 12:56 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



aligarjon

Posts: 2826
Joined: 09 September 2005

Originally posted by: ebee

I think we are still waiting for the schemes to decide how we do this even though itcame in about three weeks ago!

Lovelly innit?


I'm sure they'll find a way to add a little to our subscriptions to allow it.

Gary

-------------------------
Specialised Subject. The Bleedin Obvious. John Cleese
 29 April 2013 03:32 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8842
Joined: 03 October 2005

Third party inspection is actually not seen as a big issue, it was primarily designed for DIYers and those who do a bit of electrics as part of their wider job, kitchen fitters, plumbers etc; as a cost effective way of achieving compliance which also reduced the burden on LA's who have suffered up to 87% cuts with more to come. No doubt the schemes who got their noses out of joint because the department severed their ties and teamed up with more professional people with future aspirations rather than commercial interests will say that 'third party inspectors' need to be their members, but I&T is seen as the easy bit and cream on the top and why should they which account for 1 in 4 of domestic installers have this, what about the 3 in 4 that are not who are just as capable.

It is quite obvious that something must be working because this and other forums are not full of mammoth boring posts about the new Part P, this present document was designed with you in mind and the responsibility has been handed to you to decide on how to implement it in a cost effective way without tieing up the resources of the local authorities, the majority of work you do now does not need to be notified and I have noticed that none of you have twigged on that the term 'rewire' has been purposely omitted.

There is a real possibility that the 2014 amendment could include the clause that if an RCD is fitted then no notification as this idea is still alive.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 29 April 2013 04:03 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for ebee.
ebee

Posts: 5698
Joined: 02 December 2004

So Rock,
in your learned opinion as an Gamekeeper (LABC officer),
If one of your customers wanted notifiable works etc , where previously they A/ employed me to do the whole thing including notification or B/ Themselves or a non registered electrician but notifying you first and paying the fee and perhaps extra inspection fees to you.

They now have a third choice which is to do the install themselves but get me to do what exactly?

Just I & T (and they still notify thru you) ?

or I notify it on their behalf but not as my installation?

I have not intended to get involved in this because I suspect a "Rod for your own back" kind of situation but I`d be interested to see how it works in comparison to pre April Part P. I was awaiting the schemes to give us more info!

-------------------------
Regards,
Ebee (M I S P N)

Knotted cables cause Lumpy Lektrik
 29 April 2013 04:58 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



mikejumper

Posts: 1714
Joined: 14 December 2006

Originally posted by: rocknroll
.....I have noticed that none of you have twigged on that the term 'rewire' has been purposely omitted............

Would they need to include it?
A rewire normally requires new circuits, which are notifiable.
 29 April 2013 05:25 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



perspicacious

Posts: 7232
Joined: 18 April 2006

"You would sing for the Desing and Installation elements"

Isn't that what Desi Rascal does?

Regards

BAD
 29 April 2013 05:58 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19656
Joined: 23 March 2004

Originally posted by: perspicacious

"You would sing for the Desing and Installation elements"



Isn't that what Desi Rascal does?

Regards

BAD


BOD, but BOD, but.................

not the mellifluous tones of a little ice cold Bach in your esoteric library then - it's Dizzee Rascal

Respec' -

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 29 April 2013 06:14 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



perspicacious

Posts: 7232
Joined: 18 April 2006

Poetic licence

Regards

BOD
 29 April 2013 06:21 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Zoro

Posts: 138
Joined: 31 July 2011

Originally posted by: tomgunn

I thought that this had changes, as from the 6th of April? I thought that these types of works could now be signed off by a third party?

Tom

The NVQ requirement for Part P Mk2 April 2013, has been delayed for a Fourth time. The Schemes and their commercial training partners, have reluctantly agreed to continue taking on short course people into their Schemes. The new QS short courses have been extended from three weeks to six weeks, for credibility reasons.

The new 3rd Party Certification Scheme is delayed, notifying a 3rd Party Certifier before you start and then calling then to test and inspect when you have finished, has a few regulatory problems, like BS7671 and EAWR. HSE have proposed in a consultation, that the EAWR regulations be deregulated and removed as a requirement for SME's, so this will help.

BS7671 will have to be changed to allow the DIYers, Kitchen fitters, Builders etc, to energise the altered circuits before testing with a bang test and no initial verification, or first fix. Otherwise the cost will exceed the £85 benchmark figure set by DCLG.

There is also pressure to deregulate even more from the big contractors and sheds, to make an Electricians work totally a DIY job, probably a minimum wage job with government providing a grant to create new jobs. Any concerns over safety are to be handled by the mandatory provision of RCD's as these magical RCD's have been promoted as able to protect the public from anything, even dangerous work. It is the logical extension of the Short course guys, let into Scheme membership and actually reducing accidents, and fires by over 17%, do we really need Electricians?

The long awaited "Risk based Assessment" once every three years, first proposed back in 2009 in the EAS standard, is also delayed again. Because the Schemes don't want it, as the present Assessment model is highly profitable for the Schemes. Strange that the Gas guys are not assessed each year, but Electrical Scheme members are, for safety reasons, but at the same time installation work is destined to become a DIY task.

So situation normal, a small group of people kicking our trade around for their own commercial interest.

It's all about Money not Safety.
 29 April 2013 06:43 PM
User is online View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for OMS.
OMS

Posts: 19656
Joined: 23 March 2004

Originally posted by: perspicacious

Poetic licence

Regards

BOD


Ahhhh - O Captain, my Captain -

OMS

-------------------------
Failure is always an option
 29 April 2013 08:05 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message



Fm

Posts: 667
Joined: 24 August 2011

Its his house
Your an electrician.
Personally i would just get on with it.
 30 April 2013 04:03 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8842
Joined: 03 October 2005

Originally posted by: ebee

So Rock,

in your learned opinion as an Gamekeeper (LABC officer),

Wrong agency but you are forgiven.

If one of your customers wanted notifiable works etc , where previously they A/ employed me to do the whole thing including notification or B/ Themselves or a non registered electrician but notifying you first and paying the fee and perhaps extra inspection fees to you.

I have PM'd you with details.

They now have a third choice which is to do the install themselves but get me to do what exactly?

Just I & T (and they still notify thru you) ?

or I notify it on their behalf but not as my installation?

I have not intended to get involved in this because I suspect a "Rod for your own back" kind of situation but I`d be interested to see how it works in comparison to pre April Part P. I was awaiting the schemes to give us more info!

The issue of third party certification is a lot bigger than you, your just a small part of it.

I can reveal that in a recent study of this issue, of which the representative groups were; (which I will split into two parts accounting for 600 units throughout the groups).

Developers and clients, architects, housebuilders, small builders voted 74% in favour of third party inspections,

Contractors and specialist trades voted 23% in favour of third party inspections.

CPS's were not invited to participate.


regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 30 April 2013 05:42 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for weirdbeard.
weirdbeard

Posts: 1522
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: rocknroll

this and other forums are not full of mammoth boring posts about the new Part P,



I think the reason is everyone who gives (or used to give) a hoot on this issue have actually been rendered speechless by the whole debacle.
 30 April 2013 05:47 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for rocknroll.
rocknroll

Posts: 8842
Joined: 03 October 2005

Originally posted by: weirdbeard

Originally posted by: rocknroll

this and other forums are not full of mammoth boring posts about the new Part P,


I think the reason is everyone who gives (or used to give) a hoot on this issue have actually been rendered speechless by the whole debacle.


Thats normal, when you exceed peoples expectations it usually renders them speechless.

regards

-------------------------
"Take nothing but a picture,
leave nothing but footprints!"
-------------------------
"Oh! The drama of it all."
-------------------------
"You can throw all the philosophy you like at the problem, but at the end of the day it's just basic electrical theory!"
-------------------------
 30 April 2013 05:51 PM
User is offline View Users Profile Print this message


Avatar for weirdbeard.
weirdbeard

Posts: 1522
Joined: 26 September 2011

Originally posted by: rocknroll



Thats normal, when you exceed peoples expectations it usually renders them speechless.


FYI: Debacle

Noun:
A sudden and ignominious failure; a fiasco

IET » Wiring and the regulations » Rewire

1 2 Next Last unread
Topic Tools Topic Tools
Statistics

See Also:



FuseTalk Standard Edition v3.2 - © 1999-2014 FuseTalk Inc. All rights reserved.