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Topic Title: New cu causing headache
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Created On: 23 April 2013 06:08 PM
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 23 April 2013 06:08 PM
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jamesrussell

Posts: 81
Joined: 11 January 2008

been on few weeks ago re rcd tripping when current drawn client has sold property and is reluctant for me to start pulling house to bits to find crossed neutral etc
I temporally put the sockets on the non rcd side of new board all other circuits protected
how will this reflect on me when he sells the house
 23 April 2013 06:28 PM
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michaelbrett

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Joined: 28 December 2005

What does your Elelectrical Installation Certificate state and has this been passed to the purchaser ?

Just been through this with a customer who purchased a house and all sorts of electrical issues - certificate does not reflect what has been done.

Customers solicitor now in 'discussion' with the vendor.

Regards

Mike
 23 April 2013 07:02 PM
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jamesrussell

Posts: 81
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I installed and tested the cu about 8 weeks ago and everything seemed fine.
The client reckoned she came in after me and the decorator and all was fine.
however when they came in the other week to finish cleaning that's when the fridge freezer or the hoover tripped the rcd.
So when I did the cert it was ok what do I do?
 23 April 2013 07:03 PM
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alanblaby

Posts: 352
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Why on earth did you energise socket outlets without RCD protection?

If anyone has a shock from an appliance you will be liable. You are liable now, you havent followed the regs, and cannot justify the reason for doing so.

I know many people do it occasionally, but generally as an overnight fix to keep the power on, never for more than a couple of days.
Get back and fix it.
 23 April 2013 07:03 PM
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jamesrussell

Posts: 81
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I installed and tested the cu about 8 weeks ago and everything seemed fine.
The client reckoned she came in after me and the decorator and all was fine.
however when they came in the other week to finish cleaning that's when the fridge freezer or the hoover tripped the rcd.
So when I did the cert it was ok what do I do?
 23 April 2013 07:07 PM
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jamesrussell

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tell me why they would get more of a shock now than they would have done 2 months ago when it had fuse wire
 23 April 2013 07:13 PM
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michaelbrett

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James

You have carried out changes to the means of protection.

Unfortunetly, you were the last person to 'touch it'. So, if someone gets 'zapped', paperwork will probably get checked and well, you know the rest........

Did you do a full inspection prior to changing the CU? Did you document the data?

Did the client ever fully energise the installation prior to sale? Did it ever work with appliances plugged in?

Regards

Mike
 23 April 2013 07:17 PM
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sparkiemike

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Originally posted by: jamesrussell

tell me why they would get more of a shock now than they would have done 2 months ago when it had fuse wire


It may have been unsafe then and it may be unsafe now - we don't know and it sounds like you don't because you don't know what the problem is?

Your problem is that you have "temporally put the sockets on the non rcd side of new board", are you saying you did this after you carried out your testing and issued a cert ?

I certainly would not have done that until I knew what the problem was. Was the client aware that you left the installation potentially unsafe?
 23 April 2013 07:29 PM
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ady1

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Hi James
What was supposed to be on 'the non RCD side' ?

Regards
Ady

-------------------------
Resistance is futile.
 23 April 2013 07:38 PM
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perspicacious

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"What was supposed to be on 'the non RCD side' ?"



Regards

BOD
 23 April 2013 07:45 PM
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dg66

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Originally posted by: ady1

Hi James

What was supposed to be on 'the non RCD side' ?



Regards

Ady


There can be a number of things not on an RCD, on my CU i,ve got
dual RCDs and two circuits without RCD protection. Four FCUs on one circuit to supply freezers a fridge and a tumble dryer and the cooker on another circuit, all compliant with BS 7671

-------------------------
Regards

Dave(not Cockburn)
 23 April 2013 07:49 PM
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SKElectrical

Posts: 910
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Originally posted by: alanblaby

Why on earth did you energise socket outlets without RCD protection?

Why not, the installation has likely been without RCD for 30+ years.



If anyone has a shock from an appliance you will be liable. You are liable now, you havent followed the regs, and cannot justify the reason for doing so.

You are not liable, assuming your work isn't the cause of the fault.


Get back and fix it.

If you agreed with customer to upgrade C/U with additional protection by means of RCDs, then you will have to either reimburse or find the fault (at an extra cost,, unless you specifically told cust you would upgrade C/U to current standards)




Originally posted by: michaelbrett
You have carried out changes to the means of protection (of the socket circuit)


No he hasn't.
 23 April 2013 07:50 PM
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perspicacious

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"all compliant with BS 7671"

Which edition?

Regards

BOD
 23 April 2013 08:01 PM
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Jaymack

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Originally posted by: jamesrussell
So when I did the cert it was ok what do I do?

Head for the hills!

Regards
 23 April 2013 08:02 PM
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WiredScience

Posts: 92
Joined: 25 January 2012

Originally posted by: jamesrussell

The client reckoned she came in after me and the decorator and all was fine.

So when I did the cert it was ok what do I do?


Get the decorator back to find the trapped neutral where he/she has dropped and replaced the sockets?
 23 April 2013 08:13 PM
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davezawadi

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Joined: 26 June 2002

More kindly you have to consider:

If the cert you did is complete, accurate and reflects the exact installation meaning everything is fully tested, you have simply made an undocumented change to an installation as part of a repair process, which should be notified to the new owner as a work in progress, requesting access to complete the job (no charge to the new owner!!).

If the testing or cert are in any way "dubious" you have a problem and should notify the new owner that the entire installation will be tested, repaired and properly certified at no charge. If they agree (they probably will) you got off lightly.

Should you have a history of this kind of work, I suggest that Colombia might be better than France!

-------------------------
David
CEng etc, don't ask, its a result not a question!
 23 April 2013 08:15 PM
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jamesrussell

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taking up gardening
 23 April 2013 08:32 PM
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davezawadi

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You need to sort this out first!

-------------------------
David
CEng etc, don't ask, its a result not a question!
 23 April 2013 08:45 PM
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dg66

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Originally posted by: perspicacious

"all compliant with BS 7671"



Which edition?



Regards



BOD

17TH 2008 AMD1

-------------------------
Regards

Dave(not Cockburn)
 23 April 2013 10:18 PM
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leckie

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Joined: 21 November 2008

The fact that you have posted this suggests that you want to sort it out. So, do a Dave suggests, notify the new owners/occupants that there is an outstanding problem and that you need access to complete the remedial works. Re-certify the work as required and learn from the experience. The problem isn't that an rcd is tripping, that's doing its job, it's that the circuits has been fitted to a non-rcd protected circuit. The fault might be on an appliance not the circuit. Or maybe the circuit has changed since you tested it. Don't panic, get back and check the circuit and deal with the problem.
IET » Wiring and the regulations » New cu causing headache

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